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I don't know, I thought he explained it pretty well: during meditation, you practice resisting urges. I'll admit that falls rather short of a doubleblindrandom

by Dove 14y ago

I don't know, I thought he explained it pretty well: during meditation, you practice resisting urges. I'll admit that falls rather short of a doubleblindrandomlyassignedcontrolgrouplargesamplesizepeerreviewed study, but it does seem to be common sense that practicing something would make you better at it.

KirinDave 14y ago
"during meditation, you practice resisting urges." Saying this does not make it true thought. Is that actually what people do during meditation? The only experience I have with meditation is sitting in seiza position after 2 hours of Ki Aikido, slowly feeling my muscles cramp, listening to someone hit a drum periodically, and not feeling anything good at all. Eventually I just learned to devote that time to reviewing things I had learned that day. I found this self-reflective practice far more refreshing and pleasant than any search for metaphorical emptiness.
- johnthedebs 14y ago
  I think when most people say 'meditation' what they mean is 'mindfulness meditation' (and that seems to be the case here). During mindfulness meditation, yes, resisting urges is part of what you're supposed to do. The basic process goes something like: 1) Sit down in a comfortable position that you can stay in without moving. 2) Take deep breaths through your nose and focus your attention on the sensation of air moving over your nasal passages and into/out of your lungs. 3) When other thoughts come into your head or you find yourself thinking about anything other than your breathing, gently direct your attention back to your breathing.
  - KirinDave 14y ago
    Why is "breathing" more effective than, say, "cats"?
    - dwiel 14y ago
      If you are "cats" you are also "breathing". If you are "breathing" you are only "breathing".
      - KirinDave 14y ago
        > If you are "breathing" you are only "breathing". And sitting, and your heart is beating, and you're swallowing, and your eyes are moving reflexively, and you're probably digesting. And what about people with tinnitis? They're often "hearing" something. Sorry, I just don't understand why focusing on a specific topic to the exclusion of everything else is somehow inferior to focusing on breathing. Because your higher functioning mind can take over your breathing, but your reflexive breathing is plenty good at it nearly all the time. Woudln't the same distraction-free mindset be attainable by contemplating the central limit theorem, or Euler's formula, or focusing on doing more situps than your body is comfortable with?
        wpietri 14y ago
        This is something that I don't think you will be able to understand until you have tried it enough to see what others see in it. There are many activities like that. The point of focusing on breathing is not to do the breathing in place of your automatic breathing. It is to pay attention to that automatic breathing. Contemplating the central limit theorem is a complex activity. Where does contemplation of that truly end? It is easy to follow the mind's natural tendency to become distracted. You think about related math. You think about your math professor that first talked about it. You think about unrelated math. You think about practical applications. The breath is simple. You observe the breath going in and out. When your mind it on something else, you return it to the breath. Over and over. You don't have to consider anything: if you attend to something other than the sensation of the breath, you've wandered off.
        lobo_tuerto 14y ago
        Maybe because breathing is something you are actually doing, while you _can't_ do "cats". Basically you are fusing something you are doing with your complete attention. And that is on a different level than "cats".
- nollidge 14y ago
  I think everyone's forgetting that there's a thousand different activities that people call "meditation". Vipassana meditation seems to be what the original article and most of the responses are referring to.

by Dove 14y ago

KirinDave 14y ago

"during meditation, you practice resisting urges." Saying this does not make it true thought. Is that actually what people do during meditation? The only experience I have with meditation is sitting in seiza position after 2 hours of Ki Aikido, slowly feeling my muscles cramp, listening to someone hit a drum periodically, and not feeling anything good at all. Eventually I just learned to devote that time to reviewing things I had learned that day. I found this self-reflective practice far more refreshing and pleasant than any search for metaphorical emptiness.

johnthedebs 14y ago
I think when most people say 'meditation' what they mean is 'mindfulness meditation' (and that seems to be the case here). During mindfulness meditation, yes, resisting urges is part of what you're supposed to do. The basic process goes something like: 1) Sit down in a comfortable position that you can stay in without moving. 2) Take deep breaths through your nose and focus your attention on the sensation of air moving over your nasal passages and into/out of your lungs. 3) When other thoughts come into your head or you find yourself thinking about anything other than your breathing, gently direct your attention back to your breathing.
- KirinDave 14y ago
  Why is "breathing" more effective than, say, "cats"?
  - dwiel 14y ago
    If you are "cats" you are also "breathing". If you are "breathing" you are only "breathing".
    - KirinDave 14y ago
      > If you are "breathing" you are only "breathing". And sitting, and your heart is beating, and you're swallowing, and your eyes are moving reflexively, and you're probably digesting. And what about people with tinnitis? They're often "hearing" something. Sorry, I just don't understand why focusing on a specific topic to the exclusion of everything else is somehow inferior to focusing on breathing. Because your higher functioning mind can take over your breathing, but your reflexive breathing is plenty good at it nearly all the time. Woudln't the same distraction-free mindset be attainable by contemplating the central limit theorem, or Euler's formula, or focusing on doing more situps than your body is comfortable with?
      - wpietri 14y ago
        This is something that I don't think you will be able to understand until you have tried it enough to see what others see in it. There are many activities like that. The point of focusing on breathing is not to do the breathing in place of your automatic breathing. It is to pay attention to that automatic breathing. Contemplating the central limit theorem is a complex activity. Where does contemplation of that truly end? It is easy to follow the mind's natural tendency to become distracted. You think about related math. You think about your math professor that first talked about it. You think about unrelated math. You think about practical applications. The breath is simple. You observe the breath going in and out. When your mind it on something else, you return it to the breath. Over and over. You don't have to consider anything: if you attend to something other than the sensation of the breath, you've wandered off.
      - lobo_tuerto 14y ago
        Maybe because breathing is something you are actually doing, while you _can't_ do "cats". Basically you are fusing something you are doing with your complete attention. And that is on a different level than "cats".
nollidge 14y ago
I think everyone's forgetting that there's a thousand different activities that people call "meditation". Vipassana meditation seems to be what the original article and most of the responses are referring to.