4 ms·

Europe believes that Russia is doing all sorts of bad things and there's also the belief that Moscow plans to invade the EU . Isn't the logical action for EU t

by MaxPock 9mo ago

Europe believes that Russia is doing all sorts of bad things and there's also the belief that Moscow plans to invade the EU . Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes on this big bad country that hates the western way of life ?

eptcyka 9mo ago
I don’t believe the leadership sees Russia as an existential threat in Brussels. Baltics and Poland see it differently. A pre-emptive strike would be expensive and immediately retcon into making Putin be the good guy - he’s long said NATO is the aggressor. Best to make invading EU to be too expensive to be worth it. I think the bigger risk currently that Europe faces is the low and mid level corruption where Russian agents extend their tendrils into government structures in EU.
- lugu 9mo ago
  > making Putin be the good guy Come on. Who cares what he pretend? > Best to make invading EU to be too expensive to be worth it. How do you propose to estimate how much it is worth doing it? IMO, it is best is to make the kremlin government collapse by all mean necessary. Including sabotage, assassination, propaganda, confiscation, corruption/trahison. And preemptive strike if needs to be.
  - eptcyka 9mo ago
    This worked great in every other country where some other country believed the situation will be more stable if you just topple the current regime, didn’t it?
- TheOtherHobbes 9mo ago
  This has already happened. Just as in the US, all of the far-right "movements" in the EU are Russian fronts. The two biggest targets are the UK and France, because both have an independent nuclear deterrent. If those are captured by puppets, expect nuclear explosions over European capitals. This is not hyperbole. Russian government insiders have made it absolutely, unambiguously clear that Europe must be "crushed." As a direct quote. The real tragedy is oligarch complicity. Oligarchs and aristocrats in the US, UK, and EU have decided they have more in common with their Russian counterparts than with the native populations of their respective countries.
  - actionfromafar 9mo ago
    Aristocrats pretty much always believed that.
  - gnerd00 9mo ago
    How many armies in the world, have ever had a person in uniform demand that "the other army must be crushed" ? ok, is there any army that did not say that, to each other, or to an audience? Get a grip on the invective and do not blabber!
  - redeeman 9mo ago
    > This has already happened. Just as in the US, all of the far-right "movements" in the EU are Russian fronts. And you, singlehandedly have the supreme insight into all these people, to ascribe motive on them? Impressive or perhaps its possible that some people just have their own opinions that is not yours, and MAYBE has some overlap with russian? (assuming that to be true) I bet you share many opinions with Putin, for example, I believe he considers exercise to be healthy, why, by your previous logic, that would make your health advice a russian front?
kspacewalk2 9mo ago
It's not about "hating the western way of life" or any such silliness. They can hate whatever they want within their internationally recognized borders. War is best prevented by robust deterrents. When it comes to belligerent fascist regimes who want to see how far you can be pushed, not responding to provocations and aggression forcefully makes larger-scale war more likely in the future.
ForHackernews 9mo ago
No, pre-emptively starting another war is not a good idea. But yes, the West should work hard to make sure their enemy loses the war it has already started.
belter 9mo ago
> Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes on this big bad country that hates the western way of life ? Depending on the days, the priority changes, between Russia or attacking the US first, maybe with the help from Canada :-)) You have to deal with one threat at a time, and it seems the fight against chlorinated chicken will take priority for now... :-) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/12/17/trump-demands-british-supermarkets-chlorinated-chicken/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/12/17/trump-demands...
luke5441 9mo ago
We have functional democracies here. You'd have to convince the population this is the right course of action and then the politicians will do it. Good luck with that, though.
TulliusCicero 9mo ago
The logical thing to do is respond proportionally: if the ships are deliberately damaging property, seize the ships, and imprison the offenders.
- lovich 9mo ago
  Responding proportionally means you are always the one on the defensive and your opponent gets to decide the course of the conflict. There should be a tit for tat response but the tit needs to be much larger than the tat to create the incentive for no longer attacking
  - TulliusCicero 9mo ago
    That's simply not true. The US response to Pearl Harbor was proportional -- you attacked us, that's war, so now we're warring -- but that didn't mean staying on the defensive. If it's known that Russia is using ships to attack Western infrastructure, blockading those ships is entirely proportional. A blockade, in this case, isn't so much an act of war, as it is a response to an act of war.
    - lovich 9mo ago
      They shot some of our boats and we dropped portable suns onto two of their cities. A proportional response would be to take out of one their fleets. We explicitly went disproportional when we conquered their entire nation and dismantled their empire. Please stop pushing ahistorical claims
      - rasz 9mo ago
        Hey, thats exactly what Ahmed al Ahmed was thinking. He ripped rifle out of Bondi Beach terrorist hands but didnt shoot him immediately because that would be "disproportional". Terrorist ran back to his friend, pulled another gun from the bag and killed several more innocent people.
        9mo ago
TulliusCicero 9mo ago
> Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes To be clear, strikes wouldn't be "pre-emptive", Russia is already in a war, and it's entirely allowed for any nation to join the side of Ukraine. None of the rules of war prevent helping a friendly country by joining the fight.
- belter 9mo ago
  "Europe thinks the unthinkable: Retaliating against Russia" - https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-thinks-the-unthinkable-retaliating-against-russia-nato-cyber-hybrid/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-thinks-the-unthinkabl...
  - dmix 9mo ago
    EU makes plans to makes plans. Sounds like the usual strategy.
    - lostlogin 9mo ago
      I take that over the US support for Putin.

by MaxPock 9mo ago

eptcyka 9mo ago

I don’t believe the leadership sees Russia as an existential threat in Brussels. Baltics and Poland see it differently. A pre-emptive strike would be expensive and immediately retcon into making Putin be the good guy - he’s long said NATO is the aggressor. Best to make invading EU to be too expensive to be worth it. I think the bigger risk currently that Europe faces is the low and mid level corruption where Russian agents extend their tendrils into government structures in EU.

lugu 9mo ago
> making Putin be the good guy Come on. Who cares what he pretend? > Best to make invading EU to be too expensive to be worth it. How do you propose to estimate how much it is worth doing it? IMO, it is best is to make the kremlin government collapse by all mean necessary. Including sabotage, assassination, propaganda, confiscation, corruption/trahison. And preemptive strike if needs to be.
- eptcyka 9mo ago
  This worked great in every other country where some other country believed the situation will be more stable if you just topple the current regime, didn’t it?
TheOtherHobbes 9mo ago
This has already happened. Just as in the US, all of the far-right "movements" in the EU are Russian fronts. The two biggest targets are the UK and France, because both have an independent nuclear deterrent. If those are captured by puppets, expect nuclear explosions over European capitals. This is not hyperbole. Russian government insiders have made it absolutely, unambiguously clear that Europe must be "crushed." As a direct quote. The real tragedy is oligarch complicity. Oligarchs and aristocrats in the US, UK, and EU have decided they have more in common with their Russian counterparts than with the native populations of their respective countries.
- actionfromafar 9mo ago
  Aristocrats pretty much always believed that.
- gnerd00 9mo ago
  How many armies in the world, have ever had a person in uniform demand that "the other army must be crushed" ? ok, is there any army that did not say that, to each other, or to an audience? Get a grip on the invective and do not blabber!
- redeeman 9mo ago
  > This has already happened. Just as in the US, all of the far-right "movements" in the EU are Russian fronts. And you, singlehandedly have the supreme insight into all these people, to ascribe motive on them? Impressive or perhaps its possible that some people just have their own opinions that is not yours, and MAYBE has some overlap with russian? (assuming that to be true) I bet you share many opinions with Putin, for example, I believe he considers exercise to be healthy, why, by your previous logic, that would make your health advice a russian front?

kspacewalk2 9mo ago

It's not about "hating the western way of life" or any such silliness. They can hate whatever they want within their internationally recognized borders. War is best prevented by robust deterrents. When it comes to belligerent fascist regimes who want to see how far you can be pushed, not responding to provocations and aggression forcefully makes larger-scale war more likely in the future.

ForHackernews 9mo ago

No, pre-emptively starting another war is not a good idea. But yes, the West should work hard to make sure their enemy loses the war it has already started.

belter 9mo ago

> Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes on this big bad country that hates the western way of life ? Depending on the days, the priority changes, between Russia or attacking the US first, maybe with the help from Canada :-)) You have to deal with one threat at a time, and it seems the fight against chlorinated chicken will take priority for now... :-) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/12/17/trump-demands-british-supermarkets-chlorinated-chicken/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/12/17/trump-demands...

luke5441 9mo ago

We have functional democracies here. You'd have to convince the population this is the right course of action and then the politicians will do it. Good luck with that, though.

TulliusCicero 9mo ago

The logical thing to do is respond proportionally: if the ships are deliberately damaging property, seize the ships, and imprison the offenders.

lovich 9mo ago
Responding proportionally means you are always the one on the defensive and your opponent gets to decide the course of the conflict. There should be a tit for tat response but the tit needs to be much larger than the tat to create the incentive for no longer attacking
- TulliusCicero 9mo ago
  That's simply not true. The US response to Pearl Harbor was proportional -- you attacked us, that's war, so now we're warring -- but that didn't mean staying on the defensive. If it's known that Russia is using ships to attack Western infrastructure, blockading those ships is entirely proportional. A blockade, in this case, isn't so much an act of war, as it is a response to an act of war.
  - lovich 9mo ago
    They shot some of our boats and we dropped portable suns onto two of their cities. A proportional response would be to take out of one their fleets. We explicitly went disproportional when we conquered their entire nation and dismantled their empire. Please stop pushing ahistorical claims
    - rasz 9mo ago
      Hey, thats exactly what Ahmed al Ahmed was thinking. He ripped rifle out of Bondi Beach terrorist hands but didnt shoot him immediately because that would be "disproportional". Terrorist ran back to his friend, pulled another gun from the bag and killed several more innocent people.
      - 9mo ago

TulliusCicero 9mo ago

> Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes To be clear, strikes wouldn't be "pre-emptive", Russia is already in a war, and it's entirely allowed for any nation to join the side of Ukraine. None of the rules of war prevent helping a friendly country by joining the fight.

belter 9mo ago
"Europe thinks the unthinkable: Retaliating against Russia" - https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-thinks-the-unthinkable-retaliating-against-russia-nato-cyber-hybrid/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-thinks-the-unthinkabl...
- dmix 9mo ago
  EU makes plans to makes plans. Sounds like the usual strategy.
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    I take that over the US support for Putin.