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I understand the figured sense that you describe. It reverses the logical suite of cause and effect. Instead of describing the true cause (Apple chooses to drop

by Rygian 9mo ago

I understand the figured sense that you describe. It reverses the logical suite of cause and effect. Instead of describing the true cause (Apple chooses to drop the jack) and the consequence (customers "don't care", which I believe is wrong), the conveyed message blames those without a choice: "customers don't care, therefore we should drop the jack". The survey that you link is built on the premise that "you can pick only three things at most" as a manipulative trick. And since the headphone jack doesn't make it to the top 3, you use it as claim that consumers do not care about the headphone jack. This is not reasoning or stating objective facts, this is just a cop-out. My claim is that the vast majority of consumers still need at some point in their use of their phone a way to plug 3.5 jacks into their phones somehow, and just put up with the enshittified new way: either buy some bluetooth adapter dongle, or a USB-C low quality DAC, or just give up and find a different solution.

wat10000 9mo ago
Why would Apple dropping the jack cause other phone makers to drop it, if their customers still want it? 1. Apple drops the headphone jack. 2. ??? 3. Google Pixels don't have a headphone jack. What is the ??? if not "few customers care"?
- Rygian 9mo ago
  The "???" is "hey, Apple are doing it! since we already copy so many ideas from them, let's shave a few cents on the amp and jack receptacle, and if anyone complains, just claim that it's the trendy thing to do now".
  - wat10000 9mo ago
    And why didn't any of the multitude of phone makers say "turns out that people actually want a headphone jack, let's spend a few extra cents and steal all of our competitors' customers"?
    - Rygian 9mo ago
      "The Best Phones With an Actual Headphone Jack", Nov 2025 [1] [1] https://www.wired.com/gallery/best-headphone-jack-phones/ https://www.wired.com/gallery/best-headphone-jack-phones/
      - wat10000 9mo ago
        Are these popular models? Pretty sure they aren’t. So there you go: people have a choice, and they largely choose not to get a headphone jack.
        immibis 9mo ago
        Almost like there were at least three other features more important. The most important letters in English are E, T and A. I'm sure you won't notice if we remove H from all keyboards, right? After all, the survey says it's not in the top three. And given a choice between a keyboard without E and one without H, nobody buys the one without H, proving they really don't need the H.
        wat10000 9mo ago
        Why wouldn’t some keyboard manufacturer realize that a lot of people actually do need all of the letters, sell a keyboard with all of them, and make bank? This theory that people want headphone jacks and phone makers won’t provide them makes no sense. It requires phone makers to be so cost conscious that they’ll remove a desirable feature to save a few cents, yet simultaneously so clueless that they won’t take advantage of consumer preferences to beat their competition. This sort of thing happens with individual companies, but not with every single company in a competitive market with many competitors. I don’t know why people can’t just accept that they have a minority preference. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m sure it’s far from your only one (I have plenty of my own, just not this one). There’s nothing wrong with general complaints that the market doesn’t cater to your minority preference. But arguing that it’s actually the majority, when it plainly isn’t, it just weird.
- makeitdouble 9mo ago
  "few customers care" is not the democratic ideal you make it sound to be. It's the same as glued batteries, unrepairable phones. Few customers making it an absolute criteria for their phone choice still doesn't make mean the majority sees it as a positive thing nor they agree. At the time on the android side, only Pixel and Samsung's lines were serious about the camera or international NFC support, moving to other phones just for the jack came with huge compromises that had nothing to do with the jack itself.
  - wat10000 9mo ago
    It’s a competitive market. If removable batteries mattered to a lot of people, some company would take advantage of that to make a lot of money. Feature combinations aren’t immutable facts of nature. Manufacturers make a conscious choice about what to include. If a good camera and international NFC combined with a headphone jack would attract a lot of buyers, don’t you think Samsung or Google would make a phone like that to better compete? It’s nothing to do with “democratic ideal.” It’s about understanding that companies want to make money and if a feature is desirable, they will leverage that in their quest to make money. Some may fail to understand what their customers want, but all of them? It’s not plausible.
    - makeitdouble 9mo ago
      > It's a competitive market. Is it ? We have a paper trail of lawsuits telling another story.
      - wat10000 9mo ago
        Do we?
        makeitdouble 9mo ago
        The whole DMA saga started from Apple being designated a gate keeper.

by Rygian 9mo ago

wat10000 9mo ago

Why would Apple dropping the jack cause other phone makers to drop it, if their customers still want it? 1. Apple drops the headphone jack. 2. ??? 3. Google Pixels don't have a headphone jack. What is the ??? if not "few customers care"?

Rygian 9mo ago
The "???" is "hey, Apple are doing it! since we already copy so many ideas from them, let's shave a few cents on the amp and jack receptacle, and if anyone complains, just claim that it's the trendy thing to do now".
- wat10000 9mo ago
  And why didn't any of the multitude of phone makers say "turns out that people actually want a headphone jack, let's spend a few extra cents and steal all of our competitors' customers"?
  - Rygian 9mo ago
    "The Best Phones With an Actual Headphone Jack", Nov 2025 [1] [1] https://www.wired.com/gallery/best-headphone-jack-phones/ https://www.wired.com/gallery/best-headphone-jack-phones/
    - wat10000 9mo ago
      Are these popular models? Pretty sure they aren’t. So there you go: people have a choice, and they largely choose not to get a headphone jack.
      - immibis 9mo ago
        Almost like there were at least three other features more important. The most important letters in English are E, T and A. I'm sure you won't notice if we remove H from all keyboards, right? After all, the survey says it's not in the top three. And given a choice between a keyboard without E and one without H, nobody buys the one without H, proving they really don't need the H.
        wat10000 9mo ago
        Why wouldn’t some keyboard manufacturer realize that a lot of people actually do need all of the letters, sell a keyboard with all of them, and make bank? This theory that people want headphone jacks and phone makers won’t provide them makes no sense. It requires phone makers to be so cost conscious that they’ll remove a desirable feature to save a few cents, yet simultaneously so clueless that they won’t take advantage of consumer preferences to beat their competition. This sort of thing happens with individual companies, but not with every single company in a competitive market with many competitors. I don’t know why people can’t just accept that they have a minority preference. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m sure it’s far from your only one (I have plenty of my own, just not this one). There’s nothing wrong with general complaints that the market doesn’t cater to your minority preference. But arguing that it’s actually the majority, when it plainly isn’t, it just weird.
makeitdouble 9mo ago
"few customers care" is not the democratic ideal you make it sound to be. It's the same as glued batteries, unrepairable phones. Few customers making it an absolute criteria for their phone choice still doesn't make mean the majority sees it as a positive thing nor they agree. At the time on the android side, only Pixel and Samsung's lines were serious about the camera or international NFC support, moving to other phones just for the jack came with huge compromises that had nothing to do with the jack itself.
- wat10000 9mo ago
  It’s a competitive market. If removable batteries mattered to a lot of people, some company would take advantage of that to make a lot of money. Feature combinations aren’t immutable facts of nature. Manufacturers make a conscious choice about what to include. If a good camera and international NFC combined with a headphone jack would attract a lot of buyers, don’t you think Samsung or Google would make a phone like that to better compete? It’s nothing to do with “democratic ideal.” It’s about understanding that companies want to make money and if a feature is desirable, they will leverage that in their quest to make money. Some may fail to understand what their customers want, but all of them? It’s not plausible.
  - makeitdouble 9mo ago
    > It's a competitive market. Is it ? We have a paper trail of lawsuits telling another story.
    - wat10000 9mo ago
      Do we?
      - makeitdouble 9mo ago
        The whole DMA saga started from Apple being designated a gate keeper.