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Sinking the ships and then denying knowing anything about it would probably be the best course of action. That's what Russians would do, if the roles were rever
by rwyinuse 10mo ago
Sinking the ships and then denying knowing anything about it would probably be the best course of action. That's what Russians would do, if the roles were reversed.
Unfortunately too many Western leaders still think that it's possible to negotiate in good faith with Russians. In reality they respect only force, and see European rules based order and "fair play" as weakness. If Baltic states didn't belong to NATO and Finland didn't have such a big army, Russians would be already doing a lot worse things than cutting cables.
Over here in Finland, even during the "good" years between collapse of the Soviet Union and invasion of Crimea, Russian businessmen kept buying property that made absolutely no economic sense, but was located next to critical infrastructure. Better relations between West and Russia were largely an illusion, especially since Putin took over.
- shtzvhdx 10mo ago"Sinking the ships and then denying knowing anything about it would probably be the best course of action. That's what Russians would do, if the roles were reversed." You mean like NATO did off the coast of Spain a year ago?
- rwyinuse 10mo agoI didn't remember that case, very interesting. But yes, silently torpedoing a Russian ship transporting military technology to another hostile rogue state is exactly what NATO should be doing.
- shtzvhdx 10mo agoDid I miss NATO declaring war on Russia and N. Korea? Or are we OK with the Chinese silently torpedoing the next batch of military equipment to Taiwan (a rouge province under intl law)? Your argument, taken to its limit, is might makes right. Which, fine; but we're just not that strong anymore. Certainly not the EUpeeans.
- purerandomness 10mo agoWhat's the point of declaring war in a war? Russia invaded Ukraine just fine without ever declaring war.
- shtzvhdx 10mo agoAs long as the EUpeans don't drag me, my loved ones, or my taxes into a war with Russia I couldn't care less if any this is declared or not nor do I care if they torpedo Russian ships. However, I also couldn't care less if the Russians Oreshniks Liverpool or Marseille.
- purerandomness 10mo agoFair enough, you do you. Meanwhile, we'll be protecting your loved ones.
- shtzvhdx 10mo agoPray, from what? And please don't flatter yourself. Europe couldn't field an army of a 100 000 riflemen if you put all of the EU countries together.
- actionfromafar 10mo agoHonestly, neither can Russia, unless you count 100 000 random men + 90 000 rusty rifles as "riflemen".
- nubg 10mo agoLink?
- villaaston1 10mo agohttps://www.laverdad.es/murcia/cartagena/barco-ruso-hundido-frente-cartagena-ocultaba-dos-20251228071129-nt.html https://www.laverdad.es/murcia/cartagena/barco-ruso-hundido-...
- T-A 10mo agoAll I can see there before "Este contenido es exclusivo para suscriptores" is conjecture that (translating and emphasizing) "a torpedo may have pierced the hull of the vessel". Is there any evidence?
- shtzvhdx 10mo agoThe hull is bent inward in a manner characteristic of a torpedo.
- T-A 10mo agoOr of hitting a rock. What's the seabed around the ship like? A famous example which gave rise to similar hypotheses: https://news.err.ee/1142424/foreign-ministry-adviser-ms-estonia-hole-likely-caused-when-struck-seabed https://news.err.ee/1142424/foreign-ministry-adviser-ms-esto...
- LunaSea 10mo agoYou mean the boat Russia itself torpedoed?
- shtzvhdx 10mo agoLike they blew up their own pipeline. Right. Look, (all) governments play the lie and deceit game; but I dont have to go along it because of some misplaced sense jingo-patriotism.
- LunaSea 10mo agoYour sources are welcome because at the moment it's looking pretty thin. It's pretty clear that Russia torpedoes their own boat to hide their transfer of nuclear to an embargoed country, North Korea. The same North Korea that sent people to die for Russia in Ukraine. A nice little quid-pro-quo relationship.
- jopsen 10mo agoWe should just silently turn up support for Ukraine, that's where it hurts. Everything else is a distraction.