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Do you have a source that supports your claim, that the market asked for 3.5 mm jacks to go away?

by Rygian 9mo ago

crazygringo 9mo ago
That's not what the parent commenter said. They said consumers don't care, not that they asked for the jacks to go away. You're misrepresenting. But in terms of consumers not caring, yes: https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-1020924/ https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-... It's objectively not a popular feature or something the vast majority of consumers are looking for. Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Again, it's not that the market asked for the jacks to go away, they just don't care. And when there's something that consumers don't care about, companies tend to remove it. The jack takes up volume. Not huge, but on phones every cubic millimeter counts. And it's one more thing that can break. And if you really want a jack, there's a $9 adapter you can just keep attached to your headphones. So everyone wins.
- normie3000 9mo ago
  > Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Thanks for this summary. I feel sad to be in a minority who prefer wired headphones. For me it's because all their failures you listed are issues I can understand and mitigate. But when bluetooth goes wrong, what do I do? Usually: 1. turn off both devices and then turn them back on again 2. try to reconnect 3. if step 2 failed, give up and try again another day I don't learn anything. I feel infantilised and helpless.
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    Yeah, I think that's why a lot of people stick to same-brand or trusted brands -- AirPods "just work" with iPhones, in ways that other Bluetooth earbuds don't always.
- Rygian 9mo ago
  I understand the figured sense that you describe. It reverses the logical suite of cause and effect. Instead of describing the true cause (Apple chooses to drop the jack) and the consequence (customers "don't care", which I believe is wrong), the conveyed message blames those without a choice: "customers don't care, therefore we should drop the jack". The survey that you link is built on the premise that "you can pick only three things at most" as a manipulative trick. And since the headphone jack doesn't make it to the top 3, you use it as claim that consumers do not care about the headphone jack. This is not reasoning or stating objective facts, this is just a cop-out. My claim is that the vast majority of consumers still need at some point in their use of their phone a way to plug 3.5 jacks into their phones somehow, and just put up with the enshittified new way: either buy some bluetooth adapter dongle, or a USB-C low quality DAC, or just give up and find a different solution.
  - wat10000 9mo ago
    Why would Apple dropping the jack cause other phone makers to drop it, if their customers still want it? 1. Apple drops the headphone jack. 2. ??? 3. Google Pixels don't have a headphone jack. What is the ??? if not "few customers care"?
    - Rygian 9mo ago
      The "???" is "hey, Apple are doing it! since we already copy so many ideas from them, let's shave a few cents on the amp and jack receptacle, and if anyone complains, just claim that it's the trendy thing to do now".
      - wat10000 9mo ago
        And why didn't any of the multitude of phone makers say "turns out that people actually want a headphone jack, let's spend a few extra cents and steal all of our competitors' customers"?
        Rygian 9mo ago
- ptx 9mo ago
  The survey asks whether people care about the headphone jack, though – it asks whether it's in the top three features they care about. I care plenty about the headphone jack but still reluctantly bought a phone without one (which I regret) because I have more than three requirements to balance. I expect that the users who did include the headphone jack in their top three features still care that e.g. the screen, battery and radio are all in working order as well, despite not being in their top three.
wat10000 9mo ago
The source is the fact that very few phones have them. There isn't some grand conspiracy to keep headphone jacks out of phones. Why would they do that? You think Samsung or Google wouldn't jump at the chance to sell more phones by putting in a headphone jack, if that would actually help them compete? No, the reason few phones have one is because few people care about it, at least enough to influence their purchasing decisions. There are plenty of examples of market failures in the world where lack of competition or information prevents consumer preferences from being reflected in product offerings. But smartphone hardware is definitely not one of them.

Do you have a source that supports your claim, that the market asked for 3.5 mm jacks to go away?

by Rygian 9mo ago

Do you have a source that supports your claim, that the market asked for 3.5 mm jacks to go away?

That's not what the parent commenter said. They said consumers don't care, not that they asked for the jacks to go away. You're misrepresenting. But in terms of consumers not caring, yes: https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-1020924/ https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-... It's objectively not a popular feature or something the vast majority of consumers are looking for. Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Again, it's not that the market asked for the jacks to go away, they just don't care. And when there's something that consumers don't care about, companies tend to remove it. The jack takes up volume. Not huge, but on phones every cubic millimeter counts. And it's one more thing that can break. And if you really want a jack, there's a $9 adapter you can just keep attached to your headphones. So everyone wins.

normie3000 9mo ago
> Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Thanks for this summary. I feel sad to be in a minority who prefer wired headphones. For me it's because all their failures you listed are issues I can understand and mitigate. But when bluetooth goes wrong, what do I do? Usually: 1. turn off both devices and then turn them back on again 2. try to reconnect 3. if step 2 failed, give up and try again another day I don't learn anything. I feel infantilised and helpless.
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  Yeah, I think that's why a lot of people stick to same-brand or trusted brands -- AirPods "just work" with iPhones, in ways that other Bluetooth earbuds don't always.
Rygian 9mo ago
I understand the figured sense that you describe. It reverses the logical suite of cause and effect. Instead of describing the true cause (Apple chooses to drop the jack) and the consequence (customers "don't care", which I believe is wrong), the conveyed message blames those without a choice: "customers don't care, therefore we should drop the jack". The survey that you link is built on the premise that "you can pick only three things at most" as a manipulative trick. And since the headphone jack doesn't make it to the top 3, you use it as claim that consumers do not care about the headphone jack. This is not reasoning or stating objective facts, this is just a cop-out. My claim is that the vast majority of consumers still need at some point in their use of their phone a way to plug 3.5 jacks into their phones somehow, and just put up with the enshittified new way: either buy some bluetooth adapter dongle, or a USB-C low quality DAC, or just give up and find a different solution.
- wat10000 9mo ago
  Why would Apple dropping the jack cause other phone makers to drop it, if their customers still want it? 1. Apple drops the headphone jack. 2. ??? 3. Google Pixels don't have a headphone jack. What is the ??? if not "few customers care"?
  - Rygian 9mo ago
    The "???" is "hey, Apple are doing it! since we already copy so many ideas from them, let's shave a few cents on the amp and jack receptacle, and if anyone complains, just claim that it's the trendy thing to do now".
    - wat10000 9mo ago
      And why didn't any of the multitude of phone makers say "turns out that people actually want a headphone jack, let's spend a few extra cents and steal all of our competitors' customers"?
      - Rygian 9mo ago
ptx 9mo ago
The survey asks whether people care about the headphone jack, though – it asks whether it's in the top three features they care about. I care plenty about the headphone jack but still reluctantly bought a phone without one (which I regret) because I have more than three requirements to balance. I expect that the users who did include the headphone jack in their top three features still care that e.g. the screen, battery and radio are all in working order as well, despite not being in their top three.

wat10000 9mo ago

The source is the fact that very few phones have them. There isn't some grand conspiracy to keep headphone jacks out of phones. Why would they do that? You think Samsung or Google wouldn't jump at the chance to sell more phones by putting in a headphone jack, if that would actually help them compete? No, the reason few phones have one is because few people care about it, at least enough to influence their purchasing decisions. There are plenty of examples of market failures in the world where lack of competition or information prevents consumer preferences from being reflected in product offerings. But smartphone hardware is definitely not one of them.