4 ms·

C++ doesn't have low barrier of entry, I almost quit programming as a teen because of C++.

by sesm 9mo ago

torginus 9mo ago
Imo the worst thing about starting out with C++ (which is much better with Rust), is the lack of credible package management/build system that allows you to just install packages. This used to be even more true previously than today. Nowadays, there's stuff like vcpkg, and tons of resources, but I still wouldn't call it straightforward compared to something like nuget or cargo. It tooke me more time to figure out CMake than entire other programming languages.
- tialaramex 9mo ago
  It does really help, in modern languages where they provide tools in the box and the ecosystem just accepts those as the default† tools, to have the default be that when you make a new project it just works, often by having it print "Hello, World!" or something else simple but definitive as proof we made a program. † Default means just that, neither Rust's own compiler nor the Linux kernel need the cargo tooling, but these projects both have actual toolsmiths to maintain their build infrastructure and your toy program does not. There should be a default which Just Works at this small scale.
- 1718627440 9mo ago
  > the lack of credible package management APT/dpkg/yast/rpm/pacman/... ? Make is very simple, you don't even need a makefile. Just type "make main" for main.cpp and it works.
tialaramex 9mo ago
There's a weird cognitive bias where somehow people justify "I compiled this Hello World C++ project " as "C++ is easy" and yet "I wasn't able to understand how this optimized linear algebra library works" gets classed as "Rust is hard". In reality it matters what you already know, and whether you want to understand deeply or are just interested in enough surface understanding to write software. There's a reason C++ has an entire book about its many, many types of initialization for example.

C++ doesn't have low barrier of entry, I almost quit programming as a teen because of C++.

by sesm 9mo ago

C++ doesn't have low barrier of entry, I almost quit programming as a teen because of C++.

Imo the worst thing about starting out with C++ (which is much better with Rust), is the lack of credible package management/build system that allows you to just install packages. This used to be even more true previously than today. Nowadays, there's stuff like vcpkg, and tons of resources, but I still wouldn't call it straightforward compared to something like nuget or cargo. It tooke me more time to figure out CMake than entire other programming languages.

tialaramex 9mo ago
It does really help, in modern languages where they provide tools in the box and the ecosystem just accepts those as the default† tools, to have the default be that when you make a new project it just works, often by having it print "Hello, World!" or something else simple but definitive as proof we made a program. † Default means just that, neither Rust's own compiler nor the Linux kernel need the cargo tooling, but these projects both have actual toolsmiths to maintain their build infrastructure and your toy program does not. There should be a default which Just Works at this small scale.
1718627440 9mo ago
> the lack of credible package management APT/dpkg/yast/rpm/pacman/... ? Make is very simple, you don't even need a makefile. Just type "make main" for main.cpp and it works.

tialaramex 9mo ago

There's a weird cognitive bias where somehow people justify "I compiled this Hello World C++ project " as "C++ is easy" and yet "I wasn't able to understand how this optimized linear algebra library works" gets classed as "Rust is hard". In reality it matters what you already know, and whether you want to understand deeply or are just interested in enough surface understanding to write software. There's a reason C++ has an entire book about its many, many types of initialization for example.