4 ms·

Also, it's more difficult to reach true failure with lower load, people tend to stop too early.

by olalonde 10mo ago

samiv 10mo ago
False, failing to lift is not the same as lifting until failure. Consider, if I load up the bench press to 200kg I won't get a single rep. If I try to rep it I'll fail but I'm not lifting until failure. If I load it up to smaller weight lets say 100kg and crank out rep after rep I'll get much closer to "lifting until failure." When I reach the end, the last rep is a rep I won't make. But I'm still not at a point where I can't do no more, just the weight is too big, so I must reduce the weight and go again. When I do this I get even closer to "lifting until failure". It's like integration, the smaller the infinitesimal the closer to the true value you get when you sum up (integrate) all the parts.
- unaindz 10mo ago
  While technically true getting very close to failure is only useful if you don't need optimal results and lack the time to do more volume. The damage by going to failure will make high volumes maintained over time impossible. Ideally you would leave 1-2 possible reps. I think it's important to train to failure to know your body and learn to gauge your reps to failure but other than that and very little time per week to train it's eventually counterproductive. And if training with lower weights you tend to end very far from failure if just following a program without knowing what you are doing.
  - samiv 10mo ago
    Volume itself is meaningless. The only thing that matters is the intensity of the workout. In fact you want the maximum intensity with minimum volume to have less wear and tear and more recovery while maximizing the growth stimulus. First intensity. Then recovery. These two dictate the volume. If volume exceeds recovery injury and burnout will follow.
    - machomaster 10mo ago
      Doing dumbbell raises to failure with 5repmax will bring more pain, discomfort and wear/tear than doing the same exercise with 20repmax.
      - samiv 10mo ago
        Not sure what you want to say with 5repmax and 20repmax
      - oarfish 10mo ago
        Why? Most people don't build up to such a stimulus, so its not surprising if its uncomfortable, if all youve ever done is 20 rep sets.
        machomaster 10mo ago
        It's not about the stimulus. It's about the fact that some exercises are naturally better done within the lower rep range (5-10), while others work and feel better with the higher rep range (20-30). Some are better in the middle. With DB side raises, take too high of a weight, and you will feel like you can't do anything productive done (can't even raise to an appropriate height). With lower weights you can get a proper range of motion and can really feel the burn and get the target (sic!) muscle exhausted. Additionally, too high of a weight doesn't feel good on joints. Similarly with squats (or deadlifts). Squating with 5-10RM is fine. But 30RM?.. Theoretically it gives the same stimulus as doing 5-10RM, but practically everyone who suggests putting such sets to a program should be medicated and put on a suicide watch. The taxationvon all systems of your body is just so huge (especially the more advanced you are). Heck, mere squating true (!) 20RM (just one set!) is considered a crazy challenge that most will never do. I have done crazy stuff in my life, but I am not embarrassed to admit that this challenge is beyond me. Simply doing 20RM leg extensions is hard enough for me. These require the practical experience. Take barbell/dumbbells, try yourself and no more explanations will be needed.
        oarfish 10mo ago

Also, it's more difficult to reach true failure with lower load, people tend to stop too early.

samiv 10mo ago

False, failing to lift is not the same as lifting until failure. Consider, if I load up the bench press to 200kg I won't get a single rep. If I try to rep it I'll fail but I'm not lifting until failure. If I load it up to smaller weight lets say 100kg and crank out rep after rep I'll get much closer to "lifting until failure." When I reach the end, the last rep is a rep I won't make. But I'm still not at a point where I can't do no more, just the weight is too big, so I must reduce the weight and go again. When I do this I get even closer to "lifting until failure". It's like integration, the smaller the infinitesimal the closer to the true value you get when you sum up (integrate) all the parts.

unaindz 10mo ago
While technically true getting very close to failure is only useful if you don't need optimal results and lack the time to do more volume. The damage by going to failure will make high volumes maintained over time impossible. Ideally you would leave 1-2 possible reps. I think it's important to train to failure to know your body and learn to gauge your reps to failure but other than that and very little time per week to train it's eventually counterproductive. And if training with lower weights you tend to end very far from failure if just following a program without knowing what you are doing.
- samiv 10mo ago
  Volume itself is meaningless. The only thing that matters is the intensity of the workout. In fact you want the maximum intensity with minimum volume to have less wear and tear and more recovery while maximizing the growth stimulus. First intensity. Then recovery. These two dictate the volume. If volume exceeds recovery injury and burnout will follow.
  - machomaster 10mo ago
    Doing dumbbell raises to failure with 5repmax will bring more pain, discomfort and wear/tear than doing the same exercise with 20repmax.
    - samiv 10mo ago
      Not sure what you want to say with 5repmax and 20repmax
    - oarfish 10mo ago
      Why? Most people don't build up to such a stimulus, so its not surprising if its uncomfortable, if all youve ever done is 20 rep sets.
      - machomaster 10mo ago
        It's not about the stimulus. It's about the fact that some exercises are naturally better done within the lower rep range (5-10), while others work and feel better with the higher rep range (20-30). Some are better in the middle. With DB side raises, take too high of a weight, and you will feel like you can't do anything productive done (can't even raise to an appropriate height). With lower weights you can get a proper range of motion and can really feel the burn and get the target (sic!) muscle exhausted. Additionally, too high of a weight doesn't feel good on joints. Similarly with squats (or deadlifts). Squating with 5-10RM is fine. But 30RM?.. Theoretically it gives the same stimulus as doing 5-10RM, but practically everyone who suggests putting such sets to a program should be medicated and put on a suicide watch. The taxationvon all systems of your body is just so huge (especially the more advanced you are). Heck, mere squating true (!) 20RM (just one set!) is considered a crazy challenge that most will never do. I have done crazy stuff in my life, but I am not embarrassed to admit that this challenge is beyond me. Simply doing 20RM leg extensions is hard enough for me. These require the practical experience. Take barbell/dumbbells, try yourself and no more explanations will be needed.
        oarfish 10mo ago