4 ms·

These "gas turbines" are located next door to the Allen Combined Cycle Plant, a grid scale natural gas power plant with 1.1GW capacity. It's there to power a ne

These "gas turbines" are located next door to the Allen Combined Cycle Plant, a grid scale natural gas power plant with 1.1GW capacity. It's there to power a nearby steel mill. That's the kind of neighborhood xAI has put its cluster in. I'm incredibly skeptical of any claim that xAI's power use is putting a dent in the local environment, and "environmental racism" just reeks of the usual agenda pushing.

bob1029 10mo ago
How tall are the stacks at the combined cycle plant compared to the ones at the xAI datacenter? https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/xai-datacenter-4-please-credit-steve-jones-flight-by-southwings-for-selc.JPG?c=16x9&q=w_2000 https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/xai-datacen... https://maps.app.goo.gl/uPkQtSQzMZC3rPZB6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/uPkQtSQzMZC3rPZB6
- XorNot 10mo ago
  Seriously this: smoke stacks are a carefully engineered structure specially to ensure air emissions diffuse and don't roll along the ground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnYdt4T76mk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnYdt4T76mk You absolutely cannot park a bunch of truck mounted generators next to an existing plant and go "yeah it won't make a difference".
  - rossjudson 10mo ago
    Once, when I was a child, I remember the carefully engineered smoke stacks in Sudbury Ontario spilling out acrid smoke sideways, and then straight down into the town. Back then, Sudbury looked like Mars.
    - black_puppydog 10mo ago
      So you're saying when not done properly, emissions have very direct negative impact on the surrounding community. Did I get that right?
      - Xss3 10mo ago
        No theyre saying that since that day everyone has given up and nothing matters anymore. We all collectively decided that it is OKAY and didnt change a single thing since.
foobarqux 10mo ago
That plant is subject to regulations. The xAI turbines have evaded regulations by claiming that they are portable.
- goku12 10mo ago
  You're not very off the the mark. To add in that extra detail, xAI is using portable gas turbines that are meant for providing emergency backup power in case of a catastrophic loss of power, like in the event of a natural disaster. Being portable, they lack the systems necessary to avoid polluting the surrounding air with oxides of nitrogen and formaldehyde - really nasty stuff. That shouldn't normally cause a serious issue, since the turbines are meant for temporary backup alone. But at Memphis, xAI is stretching the meaning of 'temporary'.
toofy 10mo ago
i’m curious, are you skeptical xai would wiggle around regulations and pollute a city? by “agenda pushing” do you mean those who have an agenda to have breathable air? because that seems like an entirely reasonable agenda to me.
- Lerc 10mo ago
  That seems like an odd framing. For my part I am prepared to accept that XAI might attempt to flout regulations. If I knew more about their operating practices I might even expect it. Even in that case I would not expect it to be the case that you could assume that they had done in any individual case. While this isn't criminal law, the principle that underlies innocent until proven guilty still applies. I don't think it's acceptable do condemn people because you are assuming that they are doing the kind of thing you expect them to do. I think it is still incumbent upon accusers to make their case and for that accusation to be robustly challenged. Not just by people who stand something to gain by one outcome over another, but by people who want to find out the truth. I tend to challenge ideas that support my viewpoint more than oppose, I find it incredibly irritating to encounter a flawed argument concluding something I agree with. Somewhat annoyingly it seems to cause people to assume I believe the opposite to what I actually believe, because there seems to be a presumption that you should accept all arguments in favour of your viewpoint no matter how bad they are. Apparently I'm not the right sort of team player. >by “agenda pushing” do you mean those who have an agenda to have breathable air? because that seems like an entirely reasonable agenda to me. I don't see how you could in good faith reach that conclusion from reading the comment above. It seems to me to be talking about the agenda of people expressing concern for others. That's the "Think of the children" kind of argument. Invoking disadvantaged groups in this manner very rarely expresses the agenda of the groups in question, it is usually made by people claiming that there own agenda is in the interests of the group indicated, frequently without input from that group. I don't know it that is an accurate claim to make in this instance or not, but it is certainly not characterising having the ability to breath as an agenda.
  - scrollop 10mo ago
    You weaponized your argument, and perhaps showed your political leaning, by invoking "agenda pushing". That immediately caused us to think "What's your agenda". Another commenter wrote a rebuke - we're waiting for your response.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
anon7000 10mo ago
Polluting the environment in any form is a violation of property rights. It’s unfortunate our government hasn’t codified that reality. My neighbor’s don’t have a right to pollute my property by shining a bright light on it or blowing smoke into it or dumping chemicals into my underground well. Even if it’s mostly legal, it’s still a violation of my underlying right to property
HNisCIS 10mo ago
Ah so because they're black people and they're already near _some_ pollution, we can just add _more_ pollution since they won't notice. /s because some of you are fucking psychopaths
goku12 10mo ago
Here are some quotes from an article [1] that directly addresses your point: > The turbines spew nitrogen oxides, also known as NOx, at an estimated rate of 1,200 to 2,000 tons a year — far more than the gas-fired power plant across the street or the oil refinery down the road. > The turbines are only temporary and don’t require federal permits for their emissions of NOx and other hazardous air pollutants like formaldehyde, xAI’s environmental consultant, Shannon Lynn, said during a webinar hosted by the Memphis Chamber of Commerce. The argument appears to rely on a loophole in federal regulations that environmental groups and former EPA officials say shouldn’t apply to the situation. > Mayo and Lynn didn’t respond to calls and texts from POLITICO’s E&E News requesting comment and have not said publicly how much longer the “temporary” turbines will remain onsite. Musk did not respond to a request for comment. As you can see, xAI is being deliberately deceptive here and this has been known, but unaddressed for a while now. Remember that we are talking about a grave threat to the health and life of the entire population of a town. That too in a country where healthcare is deliberately unaffordable to ordinary folks. I don't know if you know how nasty formaldehyde and NOx smells. How do you so casually trivialize and vilify such concerns as 'agenda pushing'? It's very sad that HN has too many apologists for these greedy serial violators and abusers. At the same time, the sheer lack of empathy towards the unprivileged is appalling! They're humans too! [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/06/elon-musk-xai-memphis-gas-turbines-air-pollution-permits-00317582 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/06/elon-musk-xai-memph...
- Zacharias030 10mo ago
  Thank you for pointing to these details!
  - goku12 10mo ago
    You're welcome! And as you pointed out in your other comment, it's a bit frustrating when someone tries to sow doubt on well-established facts.
- Xss3 10mo ago
  Thank you for taking the time to respond. A thousand bots can spread a thousand lies faster than we can dispell them, but giving up the public square to them is worse. What a situation...
user____name 10mo ago
Or the usual Musk externalizing costs and letting someone else handle the cleanup. Who's going to fine him? The government?
Zacharias030 10mo ago
This stance strikes me as questionable, to use the first hunch that comes to mind to seed doubt in a topic that is researched and reported by multiple fairly reputable sources and multiple people on the ground.
cfraenkel 10mo ago
Just because one corp does something x bad, it means some other corp is ok to do something 10x bad? There's a huge difference between a utility scale power plant (you know, with things like tall chimneys) and "truck mounted" generators in the impact to the local air quality. But you know this and are playing word games.

bob1029 10mo ago

How tall are the stacks at the combined cycle plant compared to the ones at the xAI datacenter? https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/xai-datacenter-4-please-credit-steve-jones-flight-by-southwings-for-selc.JPG?c=16x9&q=w_2000 https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/xai-datacen... https://maps.app.goo.gl/uPkQtSQzMZC3rPZB6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/uPkQtSQzMZC3rPZB6

XorNot 10mo ago
Seriously this: smoke stacks are a carefully engineered structure specially to ensure air emissions diffuse and don't roll along the ground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnYdt4T76mk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnYdt4T76mk You absolutely cannot park a bunch of truck mounted generators next to an existing plant and go "yeah it won't make a difference".
- rossjudson 10mo ago
  Once, when I was a child, I remember the carefully engineered smoke stacks in Sudbury Ontario spilling out acrid smoke sideways, and then straight down into the town. Back then, Sudbury looked like Mars.
  - black_puppydog 10mo ago
    So you're saying when not done properly, emissions have very direct negative impact on the surrounding community. Did I get that right?
    - Xss3 10mo ago
      No theyre saying that since that day everyone has given up and nothing matters anymore. We all collectively decided that it is OKAY and didnt change a single thing since.

foobarqux 10mo ago

That plant is subject to regulations. The xAI turbines have evaded regulations by claiming that they are portable.

goku12 10mo ago
You're not very off the the mark. To add in that extra detail, xAI is using portable gas turbines that are meant for providing emergency backup power in case of a catastrophic loss of power, like in the event of a natural disaster. Being portable, they lack the systems necessary to avoid polluting the surrounding air with oxides of nitrogen and formaldehyde - really nasty stuff. That shouldn't normally cause a serious issue, since the turbines are meant for temporary backup alone. But at Memphis, xAI is stretching the meaning of 'temporary'.

toofy 10mo ago

i’m curious, are you skeptical xai would wiggle around regulations and pollute a city? by “agenda pushing” do you mean those who have an agenda to have breathable air? because that seems like an entirely reasonable agenda to me.

Lerc 10mo ago
That seems like an odd framing. For my part I am prepared to accept that XAI might attempt to flout regulations. If I knew more about their operating practices I might even expect it. Even in that case I would not expect it to be the case that you could assume that they had done in any individual case. While this isn't criminal law, the principle that underlies innocent until proven guilty still applies. I don't think it's acceptable do condemn people because you are assuming that they are doing the kind of thing you expect them to do. I think it is still incumbent upon accusers to make their case and for that accusation to be robustly challenged. Not just by people who stand something to gain by one outcome over another, but by people who want to find out the truth. I tend to challenge ideas that support my viewpoint more than oppose, I find it incredibly irritating to encounter a flawed argument concluding something I agree with. Somewhat annoyingly it seems to cause people to assume I believe the opposite to what I actually believe, because there seems to be a presumption that you should accept all arguments in favour of your viewpoint no matter how bad they are. Apparently I'm not the right sort of team player. >by “agenda pushing” do you mean those who have an agenda to have breathable air? because that seems like an entirely reasonable agenda to me. I don't see how you could in good faith reach that conclusion from reading the comment above. It seems to me to be talking about the agenda of people expressing concern for others. That's the "Think of the children" kind of argument. Invoking disadvantaged groups in this manner very rarely expresses the agenda of the groups in question, it is usually made by people claiming that there own agenda is in the interests of the group indicated, frequently without input from that group. I don't know it that is an accurate claim to make in this instance or not, but it is certainly not characterising having the ability to breath as an agenda.
- scrollop 10mo ago
  You weaponized your argument, and perhaps showed your political leaning, by invoking "agenda pushing". That immediately caused us to think "What's your agenda". Another commenter wrote a rebuke - we're waiting for your response.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

anon7000 10mo ago

Polluting the environment in any form is a violation of property rights. It’s unfortunate our government hasn’t codified that reality. My neighbor’s don’t have a right to pollute my property by shining a bright light on it or blowing smoke into it or dumping chemicals into my underground well. Even if it’s mostly legal, it’s still a violation of my underlying right to property

HNisCIS 10mo ago

Ah so because they're black people and they're already near _some_ pollution, we can just add _more_ pollution since they won't notice. /s because some of you are fucking psychopaths

goku12 10mo ago

Here are some quotes from an article [1] that directly addresses your point: > The turbines spew nitrogen oxides, also known as NOx, at an estimated rate of 1,200 to 2,000 tons a year — far more than the gas-fired power plant across the street or the oil refinery down the road. > The turbines are only temporary and don’t require federal permits for their emissions of NOx and other hazardous air pollutants like formaldehyde, xAI’s environmental consultant, Shannon Lynn, said during a webinar hosted by the Memphis Chamber of Commerce. The argument appears to rely on a loophole in federal regulations that environmental groups and former EPA officials say shouldn’t apply to the situation. > Mayo and Lynn didn’t respond to calls and texts from POLITICO’s E&E News requesting comment and have not said publicly how much longer the “temporary” turbines will remain onsite. Musk did not respond to a request for comment. As you can see, xAI is being deliberately deceptive here and this has been known, but unaddressed for a while now. Remember that we are talking about a grave threat to the health and life of the entire population of a town. That too in a country where healthcare is deliberately unaffordable to ordinary folks. I don't know if you know how nasty formaldehyde and NOx smells. How do you so casually trivialize and vilify such concerns as 'agenda pushing'? It's very sad that HN has too many apologists for these greedy serial violators and abusers. At the same time, the sheer lack of empathy towards the unprivileged is appalling! They're humans too! [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/06/elon-musk-xai-memphis-gas-turbines-air-pollution-permits-00317582 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/06/elon-musk-xai-memph...

Zacharias030 10mo ago
Thank you for pointing to these details!
- goku12 10mo ago
  You're welcome! And as you pointed out in your other comment, it's a bit frustrating when someone tries to sow doubt on well-established facts.
Xss3 10mo ago
Thank you for taking the time to respond. A thousand bots can spread a thousand lies faster than we can dispell them, but giving up the public square to them is worse. What a situation...

user____name 10mo ago

Or the usual Musk externalizing costs and letting someone else handle the cleanup. Who's going to fine him? The government?

Zacharias030 10mo ago

This stance strikes me as questionable, to use the first hunch that comes to mind to seed doubt in a topic that is researched and reported by multiple fairly reputable sources and multiple people on the ground.

cfraenkel 10mo ago

Just because one corp does something x bad, it means some other corp is ok to do something 10x bad? There's a huge difference between a utility scale power plant (you know, with things like tall chimneys) and "truck mounted" generators in the impact to the local air quality. But you know this and are playing word games.