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> The store must only demand ID if the buyer appears to be a minor (similar to alcohol or tobacco purchases). The store must never store the ID in any form what

> The store must only demand ID if the buyer appears to be a minor (similar to alcohol or tobacco purchases). The store must never store the ID in any form whatsoever. Your plan requires nuanced implementation details which the general public is ill equipped to understand let alone independently verify. In particular, it is already normalized (in America at least) that liquor and weed stores will ID even the elderly, and scan the barcode on the ID into their computer. Let's say you want to ban the computer part outright; the public won't understand why, because it's already normal to them. So maybe you permit scanning IDs but regulate the way businesses can store/use that data; the public can't see into the computer, they have no idea if the law is being followed or not. This leads to lax attitudes towards compliance and enforcement both, and furthermore, likely results in public cynicism aka low expectations, which will give way to complacency. This is why I don't think your plan will work well, it's doomed to degenerate into surveillance.

sethammons 10mo ago
In the three states I've lived in, nobody scanned IDs. They eye balled it and maybe enter birthday into a system.
- mikestorrent 10mo ago
  This is how it should be. If you happen to be 16 and look 19, well, fuck's sake, your body's old enough to drink now. People get so hung up on this kind of think-of-the-children crap like as though every generation before now didn't have plenty of underage drinking and debauchery. I'm more worried about people being shutins and not having any fun than I am about some kid having a beer.
- lokar 10mo ago
  I don’t even get asked for mine
hypeatei 10mo ago
I didn't even think about the ID scanning that already takes place. States that have legalized weed still have people who avoid the legal stores because of the scanning. You don't know who has access to that data and how it could implicate you because weed is still illegal on the federal level (e.g. gun owners may be wary of buying from these stores)
mikestorrent 10mo ago
> it is already normalized (in America at least) that liquor and weed stores will ID even the elderly, and scan the barcode on the ID into their computer Then why are y'all so against Digital ID? We don't make you do that in Canada, it's just the clerk eyeballing your ID if you don't look old enough. I can't believe people are letting their ID get scanned and associated with vice purchases. Is it mandatory? Land of the free, eh?
- mikkupikku 10mo ago
  Federal IDs are a political landmine for reasons mostly unrelated to privacy. The American public doesn't understand privacy issues, unless maybe you frame it as "ThE NUmBer OF ThE BeASt" oooo-oo spooky! Otherwise, most Americans just get stupified and say they have nothing to hide. My point in all of this is that we should not delude ourselves by theorizing about ways this could be implemented in a privacy preserving way, because even if that's technically possible, its unlikely for things to work out that way.
  - plagiarist 10mo ago
    America and the "if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide" / "police don't need body cameras" duality. You really cannot trust the typical person to be attempting cognition.
  - throwaway85825 10mo ago
    America doesnt have ID because big businesses and their lobbyists need cheap undocumented labor.
    - mikkupikku 10mo ago
      That's the biggest part of it. But there is also grassroots opposition to anything that could be made into or even just rhetorically support the feasibility of voter IDs. And the party which would want voter IDs is also the party which is most spooked about beast numbers and antichrists... Either way you slice it, almost nobody in America is seriously pushing for a proper federal ID, which is why we're all still abusing SSN cards for this crap.
triceratops 10mo ago
I've bought alcohol in many countries, including the US. Never had my ID stored. I am not ID-ed anymore. But in any case, my proposal would ban ID scanning altogether. There's no good reason to do it for any purchase.

sethammons 10mo ago

In the three states I've lived in, nobody scanned IDs. They eye balled it and maybe enter birthday into a system.

mikestorrent 10mo ago
This is how it should be. If you happen to be 16 and look 19, well, fuck's sake, your body's old enough to drink now. People get so hung up on this kind of think-of-the-children crap like as though every generation before now didn't have plenty of underage drinking and debauchery. I'm more worried about people being shutins and not having any fun than I am about some kid having a beer.
lokar 10mo ago
I don’t even get asked for mine

hypeatei 10mo ago

I didn't even think about the ID scanning that already takes place. States that have legalized weed still have people who avoid the legal stores because of the scanning. You don't know who has access to that data and how it could implicate you because weed is still illegal on the federal level (e.g. gun owners may be wary of buying from these stores)

mikestorrent 10mo ago

> it is already normalized (in America at least) that liquor and weed stores will ID even the elderly, and scan the barcode on the ID into their computer Then why are y'all so against Digital ID? We don't make you do that in Canada, it's just the clerk eyeballing your ID if you don't look old enough. I can't believe people are letting their ID get scanned and associated with vice purchases. Is it mandatory? Land of the free, eh?

mikkupikku 10mo ago
Federal IDs are a political landmine for reasons mostly unrelated to privacy. The American public doesn't understand privacy issues, unless maybe you frame it as "ThE NUmBer OF ThE BeASt" oooo-oo spooky! Otherwise, most Americans just get stupified and say they have nothing to hide. My point in all of this is that we should not delude ourselves by theorizing about ways this could be implemented in a privacy preserving way, because even if that's technically possible, its unlikely for things to work out that way.
- plagiarist 10mo ago
  America and the "if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide" / "police don't need body cameras" duality. You really cannot trust the typical person to be attempting cognition.
- throwaway85825 10mo ago
  America doesnt have ID because big businesses and their lobbyists need cheap undocumented labor.
  - mikkupikku 10mo ago
    That's the biggest part of it. But there is also grassroots opposition to anything that could be made into or even just rhetorically support the feasibility of voter IDs. And the party which would want voter IDs is also the party which is most spooked about beast numbers and antichrists... Either way you slice it, almost nobody in America is seriously pushing for a proper federal ID, which is why we're all still abusing SSN cards for this crap.

triceratops 10mo ago

I've bought alcohol in many countries, including the US. Never had my ID stored. I am not ID-ed anymore. But in any case, my proposal would ban ID scanning altogether. There's no good reason to do it for any purchase.