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Even killing all pathogens does not reduce all toxins already present in contaminated liquids. If you or others you know ever had (air) “traveller diarrhea”, yo

by pama 9mo ago

Even killing all pathogens does not reduce all toxins already present in contaminated liquids. If you or others you know ever had (air) “traveller diarrhea”, you can try avoiding liquids in planes and see how it goes. The n95 masking and avoidance of drinks and food during flights opened the eyes of a lot of friends to this change. None of these pathogens in water are very serious strains to the body, whereas covid or flu are, so not as big a deal as avoiding yet another nasty airborne disease, but it all helps in small ways.

ryandrake 9mo ago
Ever since COVID, I've been hyper aware of anywhere I'm being confined with people, breathing their air, touching things they were touching, sitting where they were and so on. I feel like I'm hallucinating and can visualize the human germs and filth in the liquids, in the air, everywhere. Airlines are of course the worst, but I'll still bring a mask to any indoor space like a small bar or restaurant, avoid touching anything, avoid touching my own face/eyes. Super attuned to hygiene. Every enclosed space outside of my own home/car feels disgusting and urgent to avoid.
- pton_xd 9mo ago
  Not to be an alarmist, but... your body is covered with bacteria, viruses, and fungi; literally crawling with microbes, inside and out.
  - kelipso 9mo ago
    When you smell poop, it’s actually shit particles in the air..lol. Sometimes bacteria comes along for the ride too? Garbage, rotting flesh…yeah.
    - jader201 9mo ago
      Technically, gas != tiny solid particles. So, no, you’re not inhaling actual particles.
    - phyzome 9mo ago
      This is not true. The smell of poop is from small molecules. Yes, it came from inside someone's bowels, but it's not microbes.
- jader201 9mo ago
  IANAD, but that sounds like clinical mysophobia (germaphobia). No judgement — I’m sure COVID has done this to many people. But if it’s causing you anxiety or other stress, it may be worth considering talking to someone. I think, generally, the real risks are overblown. E.g. many people can be anxious about the bacteria on our phones. And they do contain a lot, but most of them are harmless. As long as you wash your hands when you get home from being in public, and don’t touch your face while in public, and clean your phone if you’ve been in a high risk public area, you’re likely knocking out most real risks. Again, I’m not an expert. But I’ve done some digging on it, and this is my take, FWIW.
throw0101c 9mo ago
> Even killing all pathogens does not reduce all toxins already present in contaminated liquids. There are two things to be mindful of: Food Poisoning and Food Intoxication. Poisoning occurs from microbes (e.g. salmonella). Most are killed instantly at ~165F/74F, or at lower temperatures if those temperatures are kept for some period of time (140F/60C@12min; 150F/65C@72sec): * https://www.michiganfoodsafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/USDA-Appendix-A-Time-and-Temperature-Combinations.pdf https://www.michiganfoodsafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/0... * Tables 2 to 4: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/2021-12/Appendix-A.pdf https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/202... However, microbes are living things, and when they metabolize food they create waste. That waste can also be harmful to humans as well, but the waste is not dealt with high temperatures. So even if you kill the microbes at high temperatures to prevent poisoning, if there's enough waste around and you ingest it you may get food intoxication.
- 0xbadcafebee 9mo ago
  Apparently foodbourne intoxication is a food thing, not a water [tank] thing [1]. It seems heat-stable toxins are very rare in drinking water, as it isn't nutrient-rich enough to create enough toxins to affect you. Even biofilms don't really generate much toxins, they just leech off the microbes which cause issues. Another example of this would be old rooftop water tanks in places like NYC. It's a giant tank which never gets cleaned, and often has all kinds of gross things in it, but (usually) no food for germs to munch on. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12385500/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12385500/

by pama 9mo ago

ryandrake 9mo ago

Ever since COVID, I've been hyper aware of anywhere I'm being confined with people, breathing their air, touching things they were touching, sitting where they were and so on. I feel like I'm hallucinating and can visualize the human germs and filth in the liquids, in the air, everywhere. Airlines are of course the worst, but I'll still bring a mask to any indoor space like a small bar or restaurant, avoid touching anything, avoid touching my own face/eyes. Super attuned to hygiene. Every enclosed space outside of my own home/car feels disgusting and urgent to avoid.

pton_xd 9mo ago
Not to be an alarmist, but... your body is covered with bacteria, viruses, and fungi; literally crawling with microbes, inside and out.
- kelipso 9mo ago
  When you smell poop, it’s actually shit particles in the air..lol. Sometimes bacteria comes along for the ride too? Garbage, rotting flesh…yeah.
  - jader201 9mo ago
    Technically, gas != tiny solid particles. So, no, you’re not inhaling actual particles.
  - phyzome 9mo ago
    This is not true. The smell of poop is from small molecules. Yes, it came from inside someone's bowels, but it's not microbes.
jader201 9mo ago
IANAD, but that sounds like clinical mysophobia (germaphobia). No judgement — I’m sure COVID has done this to many people. But if it’s causing you anxiety or other stress, it may be worth considering talking to someone. I think, generally, the real risks are overblown. E.g. many people can be anxious about the bacteria on our phones. And they do contain a lot, but most of them are harmless. As long as you wash your hands when you get home from being in public, and don’t touch your face while in public, and clean your phone if you’ve been in a high risk public area, you’re likely knocking out most real risks. Again, I’m not an expert. But I’ve done some digging on it, and this is my take, FWIW.

throw0101c 9mo ago

> Even killing all pathogens does not reduce all toxins already present in contaminated liquids. There are two things to be mindful of: Food Poisoning and Food Intoxication. Poisoning occurs from microbes (e.g. salmonella). Most are killed instantly at ~165F/74F, or at lower temperatures if those temperatures are kept for some period of time (140F/60C@12min; 150F/65C@72sec): * https://www.michiganfoodsafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/USDA-Appendix-A-Time-and-Temperature-Combinations.pdf https://www.michiganfoodsafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/0... * Tables 2 to 4: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/2021-12/Appendix-A.pdf https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/202... However, microbes are living things, and when they metabolize food they create waste. That waste can also be harmful to humans as well, but the waste is not dealt with high temperatures. So even if you kill the microbes at high temperatures to prevent poisoning, if there's enough waste around and you ingest it you may get food intoxication.

0xbadcafebee 9mo ago
Apparently foodbourne intoxication is a food thing, not a water [tank] thing [1]. It seems heat-stable toxins are very rare in drinking water, as it isn't nutrient-rich enough to create enough toxins to affect you. Even biofilms don't really generate much toxins, they just leech off the microbes which cause issues. Another example of this would be old rooftop water tanks in places like NYC. It's a giant tank which never gets cleaned, and often has all kinds of gross things in it, but (usually) no food for germs to munch on. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12385500/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12385500/