4 ms·

TIL: https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci - quite horrifying! EDIT: For comparison: https://gridwatch.co.uk/ https://gridwatch.co.uk/

by gerdesj 10mo ago

candiddevmike 10mo ago
[flagged]
- OutOfHere 10mo ago
  Wait till you find out how much fossil fuel energy the US burns via its military to defend the dollar. Burning firewood actually immediately releases an extensive set of carcinogens, also causing depression.
- observationist 10mo ago
  Unless your intent isn't making the world a better place in some sort of meaningful way, learn about things and find something to care about that you can affect that actually matters. Bitcoin or AI or whatever is not worth your time. Do something real. If we ever get to the point where bitcoin or what people are doing on servers is the most pressing problem in the world worthy of our outrage, I will cheer you on. "Anon yells at cloud" isn't worth anyone's effort or time.
kfrzcode 10mo ago
Meanwhile, Hedera remains carbon negative and 7 orders of magnitude more efficient than Bitcoin. "Today, Hedera is performing the equivalent of over 10,000,000 transactions and 788,000 transactions for the same amount of energy it takes Bitcoin and Ethereum to process 1, respectively." [0]: https://hedera.com/blog/going-carbon-negative-at-hedera-hashgraph/ https://hedera.com/blog/going-carbon-negative-at-hedera-hash... [1]: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10160701/ https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10160701/
- wslh 10mo ago
  Databases either?
- ShowalkKama 10mo ago
  I find extremely funny that I came across this spammy comment while sitting on a vulnerability in their code because my attempts of contacting them have been unsuccessful
  - kfrzcode 10mo ago
    Here you go! https://hedera.com/bug-bounty/ https://hedera.com/bug-bounty/
- oofbey 10mo ago
  Everything is orders of magnitude more efficient than bitcoin.
  - npoc 10mo ago
    No money is more efficient than bitcoin.
Zaskoda 10mo ago
What this site does not show is how much of the power used to maintain the network is waste power such as gas that's normally burned off at the well site or hydro electric that goes to waste. Unlike AI, there's a strong incentive to find the cheapest electricity possible. Because that's what everyone else is doing. With Bitcoin, you now exactly what your costs are and what your yields are. There's a clear threshold, when power in an area becomes too expensive there's no reason left to mine. AI, on the other hand, is a bet on the future - infinite gains. No matter how much power costs, it's worth it to keep using as much as possible. We can't know how much power AI uses. Unlike Bitcoin, there aren't any metrics from which to extrapolate. But we do know that AI uses more power than Bitcoin already. We just have no idea how much more.
- fragmede 10mo ago
  > gas that's normally burned off at the well site Funny thing about that. Civilized governments put a stop to that, by fining flare-offs to make it economical to not do that.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
    They still do it in North Dakota
  - krupan 10mo ago
    I hadn't heard of this. Do they just allow the gas to go into the atmosphere instead? I've always heard that's worse than burning it
  - UltraSane 10mo ago
    flare-offs are much better than releasing raw methane into the atmosphere because methane is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2
  - nativeit 10mo ago
    Did they require the methane be captured? I thought flare-offs were done because the methane gas is something like 1000x worse than the CO2.
roenxi 10mo ago
[flagged]
bujkopl 10mo ago
Since when is incentivizing low cost renewable energy horrifying?
- gerdesj 10mo ago
  My first link shows that Bitcoin consumes roughly 40GW and my second link shows that the UK roughly does too. There are a lot of ifs and buts here ... but the amount of power used to support the BT mechanism worldwide is roughly the same as the power consumption of the entirety of the UK.
  - hn_ninny 10mo ago
    [flagged]
- D13Fd 10mo ago
  Because every unit of electricity causes climate change and burns resources (even renewable sources of electricity - they just burn them slower). From a societal point of view we are dumping huge amounts of electricity and resources into a hole to accomplish nothing that couldn’t be accomplished with a database and a trusted third party at a billionth of the cost (or less). The vast majority of transactions are speculation on what other people might pay for a bitcoin (i.e., a line on a spreadsheet). And even then, that speculation and trading often occurs on secondary markets which rely on trusted third parties - thus rendering the entire ordeal even more pointless.
  - bujkopl 10mo ago
    Better shoot down the sun then.
  - comradesmith 10mo ago
    You’re right. I’ll setup the database. Everyone can trust me, honest!
  - beenBoutIT 10mo ago
    In the long run BTC as a universal digital global currency will be more efficient than the fiat currencies it replaces.
utopiah 10mo ago
Well what's arguably even more horrifying is according to "Estimated average energy efficiency of bitcoin mining hardware" no significant changed happened since 2014. I imagine we went from CPU to GPU to ASIC in couple of years and now for more than a decade, no change, just more.
- tenuousemphasis 10mo ago
  I'm not sure what data you looking at but we went from 8300 J/TH in 2014 to 33.4 J/TH in 2023. So... what are you talking about?
  - utopiah 10mo ago
    They have a graph at the bottom with the name I provided "Estimated average energy efficiency of bitcoin mining hardware"
    - tenuousemphasis 10mo ago
      You're reading the graph wrong, but I still have no idea how you are. Joules per terahash has declined from 8297 in 2014 to 33 in 2023 (the latest year they have data), a 99.996% reduction, or a 250x improvement in efficiency.
- rcxdude 10mo ago
  Well, improved energy efficiency just means more hashes/s and the difficulty adjusting. There's nothing to be gained in terms of the security or efficiency of the network as a whole by making the hardware faster, it's only good for whoever makes and uses that hardware.

TIL: https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci - quite horrifying! EDIT: For comparison: https://gridwatch.co.uk/ https://gridwatch.co.uk/

by gerdesj 10mo ago

TIL: https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci - quite horrifying! EDIT: For comparison: https://gridwatch.co.uk/ https://gridwatch.co.uk/

candiddevmike 10mo ago

[flagged]

OutOfHere 10mo ago
Wait till you find out how much fossil fuel energy the US burns via its military to defend the dollar. Burning firewood actually immediately releases an extensive set of carcinogens, also causing depression.
observationist 10mo ago
Unless your intent isn't making the world a better place in some sort of meaningful way, learn about things and find something to care about that you can affect that actually matters. Bitcoin or AI or whatever is not worth your time. Do something real. If we ever get to the point where bitcoin or what people are doing on servers is the most pressing problem in the world worthy of our outrage, I will cheer you on. "Anon yells at cloud" isn't worth anyone's effort or time.

kfrzcode 10mo ago

Meanwhile, Hedera remains carbon negative and 7 orders of magnitude more efficient than Bitcoin. "Today, Hedera is performing the equivalent of over 10,000,000 transactions and 788,000 transactions for the same amount of energy it takes Bitcoin and Ethereum to process 1, respectively." [0]: https://hedera.com/blog/going-carbon-negative-at-hedera-hashgraph/ https://hedera.com/blog/going-carbon-negative-at-hedera-hash... [1]: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10160701/ https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10160701/

wslh 10mo ago
Databases either?
ShowalkKama 10mo ago
I find extremely funny that I came across this spammy comment while sitting on a vulnerability in their code because my attempts of contacting them have been unsuccessful
- kfrzcode 10mo ago
  Here you go! https://hedera.com/bug-bounty/ https://hedera.com/bug-bounty/
oofbey 10mo ago
Everything is orders of magnitude more efficient than bitcoin.
- npoc 10mo ago
  No money is more efficient than bitcoin.

Zaskoda 10mo ago

What this site does not show is how much of the power used to maintain the network is waste power such as gas that's normally burned off at the well site or hydro electric that goes to waste. Unlike AI, there's a strong incentive to find the cheapest electricity possible. Because that's what everyone else is doing. With Bitcoin, you now exactly what your costs are and what your yields are. There's a clear threshold, when power in an area becomes too expensive there's no reason left to mine. AI, on the other hand, is a bet on the future - infinite gains. No matter how much power costs, it's worth it to keep using as much as possible. We can't know how much power AI uses. Unlike Bitcoin, there aren't any metrics from which to extrapolate. But we do know that AI uses more power than Bitcoin already. We just have no idea how much more.

fragmede 10mo ago
> gas that's normally burned off at the well site Funny thing about that. Civilized governments put a stop to that, by fining flare-offs to make it economical to not do that.
- zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
  They still do it in North Dakota
- krupan 10mo ago
  I hadn't heard of this. Do they just allow the gas to go into the atmosphere instead? I've always heard that's worse than burning it
- UltraSane 10mo ago
  flare-offs are much better than releasing raw methane into the atmosphere because methane is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2
- nativeit 10mo ago
  Did they require the methane be captured? I thought flare-offs were done because the methane gas is something like 1000x worse than the CO2.

roenxi 10mo ago

[flagged]

bujkopl 10mo ago

Since when is incentivizing low cost renewable energy horrifying?

gerdesj 10mo ago
My first link shows that Bitcoin consumes roughly 40GW and my second link shows that the UK roughly does too. There are a lot of ifs and buts here ... but the amount of power used to support the BT mechanism worldwide is roughly the same as the power consumption of the entirety of the UK.
- hn_ninny 10mo ago
  [flagged]
D13Fd 10mo ago
Because every unit of electricity causes climate change and burns resources (even renewable sources of electricity - they just burn them slower). From a societal point of view we are dumping huge amounts of electricity and resources into a hole to accomplish nothing that couldn’t be accomplished with a database and a trusted third party at a billionth of the cost (or less). The vast majority of transactions are speculation on what other people might pay for a bitcoin (i.e., a line on a spreadsheet). And even then, that speculation and trading often occurs on secondary markets which rely on trusted third parties - thus rendering the entire ordeal even more pointless.
- bujkopl 10mo ago
  Better shoot down the sun then.
- comradesmith 10mo ago
  You’re right. I’ll setup the database. Everyone can trust me, honest!
- beenBoutIT 10mo ago
  In the long run BTC as a universal digital global currency will be more efficient than the fiat currencies it replaces.

utopiah 10mo ago

Well what's arguably even more horrifying is according to "Estimated average energy efficiency of bitcoin mining hardware" no significant changed happened since 2014. I imagine we went from CPU to GPU to ASIC in couple of years and now for more than a decade, no change, just more.

tenuousemphasis 10mo ago
I'm not sure what data you looking at but we went from 8300 J/TH in 2014 to 33.4 J/TH in 2023. So... what are you talking about?
- utopiah 10mo ago
  They have a graph at the bottom with the name I provided "Estimated average energy efficiency of bitcoin mining hardware"
  - tenuousemphasis 10mo ago
    You're reading the graph wrong, but I still have no idea how you are. Joules per terahash has declined from 8297 in 2014 to 33 in 2023 (the latest year they have data), a 99.996% reduction, or a 250x improvement in efficiency.
rcxdude 10mo ago
Well, improved energy efficiency just means more hashes/s and the difficulty adjusting. There's nothing to be gained in terms of the security or efficiency of the network as a whole by making the hardware faster, it's only good for whoever makes and uses that hardware.