4 ms·

How does this work on a practical level? Do you scrape the soil to a depth of a foot and submit it to electrolysis or is the soil washed and the sludge then pro

How does this work on a practical level? Do you scrape the soil to a depth of a foot and submit it to electrolysis or is the soil washed and the sludge then processed? How many grams of halogens does this recover per square acre of contaminated site? Does this sterilise the site?

awakeasleep 9mo ago
I think itd be meant for the facility that uses the halogenated compounds in the first place, integrated into their process.
- CheeseFromLidl 9mo ago
  a process that can be used *on site* to render environmental toxins such as DDT and lindane harmless and convert them into valuable chemicals – a breakthrough for the *remediation of contaminated sites*
coryrc 9mo ago
Today we scrape however many meters deep of soil and haul off to a landfill. I assume you'd scrape it up, run it through something to pull out everything bigger than a pebble. Wash the pebbles, the rinse water goes with the soil through the cleaning process. Certainly what comes out of the machine will not be living.
- worthless-trash 9mo ago
  I guess it'd be a good time to add some bacteria and life back into the soil that in a controlled manner.
talkingtab 9mo ago
The real practical and immediate help would be ground water contamination. How many bad chemicals now permeate the water supplies around farming communities. Can this be used to treat the drinking water supply?
LorenPechtel 9mo ago
Yeah, this makes no sense. It sounds like it could be used to decontaminate a waste stream, but how do you select out the offending materials from a site?? What magic breaks halogenated bonds while leaving others (which are easier to break) alone? And how does the solvent work?? Remember, teflon only became practical when they found a solvent for it--and it's the solvent that's the real problem. Teflon is non-reactive enough for the body to pretty much ignore, the solvent (which of course isn't 100% removed from the final product) has one reactive spot and is a problem. They've tried to hide behind a game of musical chairs, using "different" solvents, but the dangerous part of the molecule is unchanged as that's what's needed to do it's job. A longer or shorter inert tail makes it "different" from a legal standpoint, not meaningfully different from a toxicity standpoint. Why am I thinking scam?
- zdragnar 9mo ago
  DMSO is a pretty common solvent. It's still nasty stuff, but easy to clean from a sample. Take a bunch of contaminated soil, wash with DMSO, filter out soil, wash again, take all of that and electrolyze it. Take the soil, dilute with lots of water and boil in a chamber with a fractionating column / distillation setup to reclaim the last of the DMSO. I'd be surprised if this was in any way economical, but it's the cheapest way to permanently get rid of DDT, and the production of benzene and other hydrocarbons is a nice side benefit to reclaim some of the cost.
  - gucci-on-fleek 9mo ago
    > It's still nasty stuff I've only ever personally used DMSO in chemistry labs, but Wikipedia [0] makes it look pretty safe: it claims that it has a higher LD50 than ethanol and that it's been FDA approved for human usage, so I wouldn't call it nasty. Now, I wouldn't really want to drink it because the side effects and taste sound pretty unpleasant, but it appears that it would be safe to do so. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide#Toxicity
    - zdragnar 9mo ago
jjk166 9mo ago
The soil is mixed with water to create a slurry which is then passed through filtration units which are sensitive to particular chemicals. Now the soil is fine but your filtration media is highly contaminated.
pkphilip 9mo ago
It could be used to decontaminate open water bodies as well as ground water. We have ways of producing electricity cheaply enough these days and so using that electricity to perform electrolysis makes sense - - even if it needs to be done only during times of the day where there is good sunlight.
lrasinen 9mo ago
Way more than a foot, but that's the general idea. There's a soil remediation project near my workplace (former railway depot). They've dug up several meters deep by now.

awakeasleep 9mo ago

I think itd be meant for the facility that uses the halogenated compounds in the first place, integrated into their process.

CheeseFromLidl 9mo ago
a process that can be used *on site* to render environmental toxins such as DDT and lindane harmless and convert them into valuable chemicals – a breakthrough for the *remediation of contaminated sites*

coryrc 9mo ago

Today we scrape however many meters deep of soil and haul off to a landfill. I assume you'd scrape it up, run it through something to pull out everything bigger than a pebble. Wash the pebbles, the rinse water goes with the soil through the cleaning process. Certainly what comes out of the machine will not be living.

worthless-trash 9mo ago
I guess it'd be a good time to add some bacteria and life back into the soil that in a controlled manner.

talkingtab 9mo ago

The real practical and immediate help would be ground water contamination. How many bad chemicals now permeate the water supplies around farming communities. Can this be used to treat the drinking water supply?

LorenPechtel 9mo ago

Yeah, this makes no sense. It sounds like it could be used to decontaminate a waste stream, but how do you select out the offending materials from a site?? What magic breaks halogenated bonds while leaving others (which are easier to break) alone? And how does the solvent work?? Remember, teflon only became practical when they found a solvent for it--and it's the solvent that's the real problem. Teflon is non-reactive enough for the body to pretty much ignore, the solvent (which of course isn't 100% removed from the final product) has one reactive spot and is a problem. They've tried to hide behind a game of musical chairs, using "different" solvents, but the dangerous part of the molecule is unchanged as that's what's needed to do it's job. A longer or shorter inert tail makes it "different" from a legal standpoint, not meaningfully different from a toxicity standpoint. Why am I thinking scam?

zdragnar 9mo ago
DMSO is a pretty common solvent. It's still nasty stuff, but easy to clean from a sample. Take a bunch of contaminated soil, wash with DMSO, filter out soil, wash again, take all of that and electrolyze it. Take the soil, dilute with lots of water and boil in a chamber with a fractionating column / distillation setup to reclaim the last of the DMSO. I'd be surprised if this was in any way economical, but it's the cheapest way to permanently get rid of DDT, and the production of benzene and other hydrocarbons is a nice side benefit to reclaim some of the cost.
- gucci-on-fleek 9mo ago
  > It's still nasty stuff I've only ever personally used DMSO in chemistry labs, but Wikipedia [0] makes it look pretty safe: it claims that it has a higher LD50 than ethanol and that it's been FDA approved for human usage, so I wouldn't call it nasty. Now, I wouldn't really want to drink it because the side effects and taste sound pretty unpleasant, but it appears that it would be safe to do so. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide#Toxicity
  - zdragnar 9mo ago

jjk166 9mo ago

The soil is mixed with water to create a slurry which is then passed through filtration units which are sensitive to particular chemicals. Now the soil is fine but your filtration media is highly contaminated.

pkphilip 9mo ago

It could be used to decontaminate open water bodies as well as ground water. We have ways of producing electricity cheaply enough these days and so using that electricity to perform electrolysis makes sense - - even if it needs to be done only during times of the day where there is good sunlight.

lrasinen 9mo ago

Way more than a foot, but that's the general idea. There's a soil remediation project near my workplace (former railway depot). They've dug up several meters deep by now.