4 ms·

I still remember when people were laughing at the Tesla Model 3 as vapourware, as a scam, and proof that Musk was operating a ponzi scheme.

DangitBobby 10mo ago
It never did become affordable.
- simondotau 10mo ago
  It’s affordable relative to the definition of affordable given at the time. The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. That's $28,600 in 2016 dollars.
  - miltonlost 10mo ago
    Backwards in time affordability to bend over backwards for a nazi saluter.
    - simondotau 10mo ago
      If you have a good argument, it will withstand the bare minimum of logical analysis, such as the factoring the consequences of inflation. On a personal note I don’t find the CEO of most companies to be particularly interesting or important, and I include Tesla in that. Obsessing over personalities is the furthest from interesting as it gets for me.
  - breve 10mo ago
    So Tesla is not a bunch of liars after all? Just misunderstood?
breve 10mo ago
I still remember when Tesla was going to sell 20 million cars per year: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-drops-reference-its-goal-delivering-20-mln-vehicles-annually-impact-report-2024-05-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Now, mysteriously, Tesla's new target is 20 million in total by 2035: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-pay-trillionaire.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-... That'll be fewer cars sold in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years. And, given that Tesla is typically full of lies and hype, maybe they won't even achieve the new target.
- simondotau 10mo ago
  I can’t control the stock price or the hype cycle. I’m only interested in past and present outcomes.
  - breve 10mo ago
    The present outcome is Tesla's sales are down for the second year in a row even though the global EV market is growing. That result comes from a combination of competition, product flops, and self-inflicted brand damage. Swasticars aren't good for sales.
    - simondotau 10mo ago
      I guess Telsa will take care of itself then. No point hyping up its demise.
      - breve 10mo ago
        No point defending it either.
        simondotau 10mo ago
        There is absolutely a point. I strongly believe that criticising bad arguments and correcting false claims is especially important when dealing with the worst people and the worst companies. Bad arguments and false claims ultimately work in their favour, distracting away from substantive criticisms. Don’t hand them that advantage.
        breve 10mo ago
        > I strongly believe that criticising bad arguments and correcting false claims is especially important You're against bad arguments and false claims? Cool! Here are some bad arguments and false claims from Tesla about how fast the Cybertruck is: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs-porsche-911-carrera-t-drag-race-towing-rematch https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0AJmLvKjxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0AJmLvKjxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE I look forward to your criticisms of Tesla's bad arguments and corrections of Tesla's false claims. But maybe we should just call them what they are: lies.

DangitBobby 10mo ago

It never did become affordable.

simondotau 10mo ago
It’s affordable relative to the definition of affordable given at the time. The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. That's $28,600 in 2016 dollars.
- miltonlost 10mo ago
  Backwards in time affordability to bend over backwards for a nazi saluter.
  - simondotau 10mo ago
    If you have a good argument, it will withstand the bare minimum of logical analysis, such as the factoring the consequences of inflation. On a personal note I don’t find the CEO of most companies to be particularly interesting or important, and I include Tesla in that. Obsessing over personalities is the furthest from interesting as it gets for me.
- breve 10mo ago
  So Tesla is not a bunch of liars after all? Just misunderstood?

breve 10mo ago

I still remember when Tesla was going to sell 20 million cars per year: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-drops-reference-its-goal-delivering-20-mln-vehicles-annually-impact-report-2024-05-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Now, mysteriously, Tesla's new target is 20 million in total by 2035: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-pay-trillionaire.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-... That'll be fewer cars sold in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years. And, given that Tesla is typically full of lies and hype, maybe they won't even achieve the new target.

simondotau 10mo ago
I can’t control the stock price or the hype cycle. I’m only interested in past and present outcomes.
- breve 10mo ago
  The present outcome is Tesla's sales are down for the second year in a row even though the global EV market is growing. That result comes from a combination of competition, product flops, and self-inflicted brand damage. Swasticars aren't good for sales.
  - simondotau 10mo ago
    I guess Telsa will take care of itself then. No point hyping up its demise.
    - breve 10mo ago
      No point defending it either.
      - simondotau 10mo ago
        There is absolutely a point. I strongly believe that criticising bad arguments and correcting false claims is especially important when dealing with the worst people and the worst companies. Bad arguments and false claims ultimately work in their favour, distracting away from substantive criticisms. Don’t hand them that advantage.
        breve 10mo ago
        > I strongly believe that criticising bad arguments and correcting false claims is especially important You're against bad arguments and false claims? Cool! Here are some bad arguments and false claims from Tesla about how fast the Cybertruck is: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs-porsche-911-carrera-t-drag-race-towing-rematch https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0AJmLvKjxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0AJmLvKjxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE I look forward to your criticisms of Tesla's bad arguments and corrections of Tesla's false claims. But maybe we should just call them what they are: lies.