4 ms·

Pretty sure they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation, not getting a bachelor’s in order to join the white collar workforce.

by apothegm 10mo ago

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation PhDs have the lowest unemployment rate of any education bracket, and roughly match the earnings of professional-degree holders (e.g. MBAs) [1]. [1] https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/education-pays.htm https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/educa...
- maxminminmax 10mo ago
  Yes, but that’s not the relevant datum, because of selection effects. The relevant question is how well employed is the person who had a choice to do a Ph.D. or not compared to the counterfactual person who made an opposite choice. As an example, an Ivy graduate makes more than state school graduate on average, but there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much (that study setup has its own selection bias issues, but hopefully those gives an idea of what I mean).
  - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
    > because of selection effects We're literally measuring a selection effect: that of pursuing a graduate degree. > there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much Source? I'm not rejecting the hypothesis that this is a measurement error. But it's been observed across multiple countries for several generations. The burden of proof is on the hot take that graduate degrees in general are a bad economic bet. (Note: I don't have a PhD. I went to a state school. So you're hypothesis is tempting to believe, hence my scepticism.)
mmooss 10mo ago
> graduate degrees and academia as an occupation Yes, that's what I meant by 'doing research': People really have deep passion for it - knowledge, being on the frontier of it and generating new knowledge.

Pretty sure they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation, not getting a bachelor’s in order to join the white collar workforce.

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago

> they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation PhDs have the lowest unemployment rate of any education bracket, and roughly match the earnings of professional-degree holders (e.g. MBAs) [1]. [1] https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/education-pays.htm https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/educa...

maxminminmax 10mo ago
Yes, but that’s not the relevant datum, because of selection effects. The relevant question is how well employed is the person who had a choice to do a Ph.D. or not compared to the counterfactual person who made an opposite choice. As an example, an Ivy graduate makes more than state school graduate on average, but there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much (that study setup has its own selection bias issues, but hopefully those gives an idea of what I mean).
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
  > because of selection effects We're literally measuring a selection effect: that of pursuing a graduate degree. > there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much Source? I'm not rejecting the hypothesis that this is a measurement error. But it's been observed across multiple countries for several generations. The burden of proof is on the hot take that graduate degrees in general are a bad economic bet. (Note: I don't have a PhD. I went to a state school. So you're hypothesis is tempting to believe, hence my scepticism.)

mmooss 10mo ago

> graduate degrees and academia as an occupation Yes, that's what I meant by 'doing research': People really have deep passion for it - knowledge, being on the frontier of it and generating new knowledge.