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The university pipeline seems to me totally broken as a way to gain employment. It's still effective for prestige. You should stay in school as long as you're s

by ipnon 9mo ago

The university pipeline seems to me totally broken as a way to gain employment. It's still effective for prestige. You should stay in school as long as you're still climbing the world university rankings, but once you start falling down this ladder leave and join industry. You will get paid more and do more interesting and valuable work.

mmooss 9mo ago
As far as I know, the data says otherwise: A college degree leads to much higher lifetime income. > do more interesting and valuable work It depends what you find interesting. Research is very interesting to a lot of poeple.
- apothegm 9mo ago
  Pretty sure they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation, not getting a bachelor’s in order to join the white collar workforce.
  - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
    > they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation PhDs have the lowest unemployment rate of any education bracket, and roughly match the earnings of professional-degree holders (e.g. MBAs) [1]. [1] https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/education-pays.htm https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/educa...
    - maxminminmax 9mo ago
      Yes, but that’s not the relevant datum, because of selection effects. The relevant question is how well employed is the person who had a choice to do a Ph.D. or not compared to the counterfactual person who made an opposite choice. As an example, an Ivy graduate makes more than state school graduate on average, but there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much (that study setup has its own selection bias issues, but hopefully those gives an idea of what I mean).
      - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
        > because of selection effects We're literally measuring a selection effect: that of pursuing a graduate degree. > there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much Source? I'm not rejecting the hypothesis that this is a measurement error. But it's been observed across multiple countries for several generations. The burden of proof is on the hot take that graduate degrees in general are a bad economic bet. (Note: I don't have a PhD. I went to a state school. So you're hypothesis is tempting to believe, hence my scepticism.)
  - mmooss 9mo ago
    > graduate degrees and academia as an occupation Yes, that's what I meant by 'doing research': People really have deep passion for it - knowledge, being on the frontier of it and generating new knowledge.

by ipnon 9mo ago

mmooss 9mo ago

As far as I know, the data says otherwise: A college degree leads to much higher lifetime income. > do more interesting and valuable work It depends what you find interesting. Research is very interesting to a lot of poeple.

apothegm 9mo ago
Pretty sure they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation, not getting a bachelor’s in order to join the white collar workforce.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
  > they’re talking about graduate degrees and academia as an occupation PhDs have the lowest unemployment rate of any education bracket, and roughly match the earnings of professional-degree holders (e.g. MBAs) [1]. [1] https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/education-pays.htm https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2025/data-on-display/educa...
  - maxminminmax 9mo ago
    Yes, but that’s not the relevant datum, because of selection effects. The relevant question is how well employed is the person who had a choice to do a Ph.D. or not compared to the counterfactual person who made an opposite choice. As an example, an Ivy graduate makes more than state school graduate on average, but there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much (that study setup has its own selection bias issues, but hopefully those gives an idea of what I mean).
    - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
      > because of selection effects We're literally measuring a selection effect: that of pursuing a graduate degree. > there was a study showing that those offered Ivy admission but deciding to go to a state school made just as much Source? I'm not rejecting the hypothesis that this is a measurement error. But it's been observed across multiple countries for several generations. The burden of proof is on the hot take that graduate degrees in general are a bad economic bet. (Note: I don't have a PhD. I went to a state school. So you're hypothesis is tempting to believe, hence my scepticism.)
- mmooss 9mo ago
  > graduate degrees and academia as an occupation Yes, that's what I meant by 'doing research': People really have deep passion for it - knowledge, being on the frontier of it and generating new knowledge.