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Is the American education system really that bad? What are the obvious ways of improving the situation?

by bromang 14y ago

yummyfajitas 14y ago
The US education system is fine compared to those of Europe and Asia. http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-well-do-above-average-american.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-well-do-above-...
- tokenadult 14y ago
  The US education system is fine compared to those of Europe and Asia. The factual statement is incorrect as to results of instruction, and the statement is well known to be incorrect by any widely traveled person who has studied the educational system in multiple countries, especially those who have made specific study of typical school textbooks and teaching methods in various countries. Anyway, the links offered in support of your prima-facie false statement are not written by a person who is familiar with United States education and have been called out before here on Hacker News as crap links, contrary to http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Essentially there are two rules here: don't post or upvote crap links, and don't be rude or dumb in comment threads." AFTER EDIT: As I go out to take my son to his soccer practice, it occurs to me that the factual assumption in the grandparent comment needs examination as well. It IS a fact that schools are quite well funded in the United States compared to how they are funded in other countries. School funding in the United States is quite uneven from region to region, but in almost all regions is well above world averages, and some United States schools receive more dollars per pupil than schools nearly anywhere. So my statement about the RESULTS of schools in the United States should be interpreted as a statement that United States schools disappoint compared to what a large percentage of public funds are devoted to them. Many countries do better in that regard of efficiency. To the point of the submitted article, one fiscal overhang that older generations of school employees are leaving for younger generations of pupils and students is large pension obligations for those school employees, which are far from fully funded in most states, and are very lavish by worldwide standards. SECOND EDIT: The ball is in your court this time, yummyfajitas. I invite the readers of HN to determine whether you have ever been a straight shooter on this issue any of the many times you have submitted that crap link. I'm not aware that you have done any of the travel or reading necessary to evaluate the statements in those links accurately. Let's ask lots of HN participants to take a close look at the actual evidence on education peformance per dollar expended in different countries and think carefully about how well the United States is really doing. (My user profile, which readers can view in my absence from this discussion, explains some of my basis for knowledge for why I say the United States school system does not do as well as it ought to do.)
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    As always (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3315028 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3315028), you fail to address the data, preferring instead to make logical fallacies (typically argument by authority, now borderline ad-hominem). The HN readership is smart enough to see through this, and I'd be very surprised if you convinced a single person. Why do you persist in it? [Edit, in response to your edit: I cited data. Do you dispute the data or not? Note that an argument from authority is not the same as a data-driven argument.]
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - stephengillie 14y ago
      drama++

Is the American education system really that bad? What are the obvious ways of improving the situation?

by bromang 14y ago

Is the American education system really that bad? What are the obvious ways of improving the situation?

The US education system is fine compared to those of Europe and Asia. http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-well-do-above-average-american.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-well-do-above-...

tokenadult 14y ago
The US education system is fine compared to those of Europe and Asia. The factual statement is incorrect as to results of instruction, and the statement is well known to be incorrect by any widely traveled person who has studied the educational system in multiple countries, especially those who have made specific study of typical school textbooks and teaching methods in various countries. Anyway, the links offered in support of your prima-facie false statement are not written by a person who is familiar with United States education and have been called out before here on Hacker News as crap links, contrary to http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Essentially there are two rules here: don't post or upvote crap links, and don't be rude or dumb in comment threads." AFTER EDIT: As I go out to take my son to his soccer practice, it occurs to me that the factual assumption in the grandparent comment needs examination as well. It IS a fact that schools are quite well funded in the United States compared to how they are funded in other countries. School funding in the United States is quite uneven from region to region, but in almost all regions is well above world averages, and some United States schools receive more dollars per pupil than schools nearly anywhere. So my statement about the RESULTS of schools in the United States should be interpreted as a statement that United States schools disappoint compared to what a large percentage of public funds are devoted to them. Many countries do better in that regard of efficiency. To the point of the submitted article, one fiscal overhang that older generations of school employees are leaving for younger generations of pupils and students is large pension obligations for those school employees, which are far from fully funded in most states, and are very lavish by worldwide standards. SECOND EDIT: The ball is in your court this time, yummyfajitas. I invite the readers of HN to determine whether you have ever been a straight shooter on this issue any of the many times you have submitted that crap link. I'm not aware that you have done any of the travel or reading necessary to evaluate the statements in those links accurately. Let's ask lots of HN participants to take a close look at the actual evidence on education peformance per dollar expended in different countries and think carefully about how well the United States is really doing. (My user profile, which readers can view in my absence from this discussion, explains some of my basis for knowledge for why I say the United States school system does not do as well as it ought to do.)
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  As always (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3315028 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3315028), you fail to address the data, preferring instead to make logical fallacies (typically argument by authority, now borderline ad-hominem). The HN readership is smart enough to see through this, and I'd be very surprised if you convinced a single person. Why do you persist in it? [Edit, in response to your edit: I cited data. Do you dispute the data or not? Note that an argument from authority is not the same as a data-driven argument.]
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - stephengillie 14y ago
    drama++