4 ms·

A direct attack on mail-in voting.

mkehrt 10mo ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. This is exactly what it is. Now mail-in ballots that previously had to be dropped in the box by election day have to be dropped off days in advance.
- azinman2 10mo ago
  Or you get a manual stamp.
  - mkehrt 10mo ago
    The postmark isn't the stamp (piece of paper). It's the ink seal that's stamped over the stamp with the date on it. It doesn't matter how you pay for the piece of mail; it now potentially get postmarked at a later date than previously.
    - azinman2 10mo ago
      From the article: Request a Manual Postmark: Customers may present a mail piece at a retail counter and request a "manual (local) postmark". This postmark is applied at the time of acceptance, so the date aligns with the date the USPS took possession. I should have said manual postmark but it’s what I implied. They’re stamping or postmarking it with a date manually.
      - wl 10mo ago
        You can request it, but many post offices refuse to hand-cancel anymore.
- hinkley 10mo ago
  Every voting cycle for at least the last 4 you have seen a certain class of citizen not understand why the early numbers come in from small, rural precincts who can finish early and then the densest areas come in later and vote for other people than their guy. I’m sure that this is being fed by people whose livelihood depends on misunderstanding the problem, but it’s something people should be taught in school and the civics curriculum went away sometime around No Child Left Behind. So this has been going on at least since GW Bush, and some of this bullshit tracks all the way back to Reagan.
  - ericjmorey 10mo ago
    Civics is still taught in schools
    - hinkley 10mo ago
      Ask Gen X parents if they really believe that. Every one I’ve heard from complains about the quality and quantity.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
spankalee 10mo ago
This seems to only clarify that mail might have been in possession by USPS _before_ the postmark date. I don't see how that affects mail in voting.
- rbanffy 10mo ago
  If the postmark is more than a day after the mail-in deadline, even though it was first received by the local post office before it, it can be claimed there is no evidence it was submitted before the deadline and invalidate the balot.
  - teraflop 10mo ago
    That was already the case. This "rule" is not any kind of change in process, it's just a formal acknowledgement that the situation you're describing can happen. Why do you think that acknowledgement is a problem?
    - rbanffy 10mo ago
      Would a ballot received before the deadline, but postmarked a day later, still be counted? If not, why not, if it was received before the deadline?
      - teraflop 10mo ago
        You're muddying the waters by using the word "received". The instant in time at which your letter is technically "received" by the USPS, in the sense of them having physical possession, has never mattered for any legal purposes whatsoever. That's because in many cases, there is absolutely no physical proof of exactly what instant in time that event happened. Electoral rules aren't written based on when the USPS received your ballot, because that's typically unprovable. They're either based on when the ballot was delivered to the election office, or when the ballot was postmarked. The postmarking may happen at some point while the piece of mail is in USPS custody, or it may not happen at all if you don't specifically ask for it. The rules are based on the postmark date because the postmark date is the only available documentary evidence of the date of mailing. Again, this is not a change in policy, it's merely documenting the way the mail system has always worked.
toomuchtodo 10mo ago
Lots of folks might need to mail early or show up in person until regime change as governance infrastructure is sabotaged or degraded by people who might not otherwise be able to win.
- dylan604 10mo ago
  i think your logic is flawed. these people were clearly able to win without these changes
  - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
    The same number of 55+ voters in the US that was the margin of victor for this election die in a year (~2M, ~5k/day). I admit, I'm unsure if those who voted for this have felt sufficient pain yet to vote better, and the votes of those who don't age out by election deadlines are hard to predict, but election results since the presidential election have been very favorable. NYC and Seattle have both elected democratic socialist mayors recently. Certainly, I have no doubt deep red parts of the country will continue to vote for this until death, but those parts of the country also have lower life expectency. https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1puwkpj/democrats_overperform_by_double_digits_in_south/nvrz8lo/ https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1puwkpj/democrats... https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/behind-trumps-2024-victory-a-more-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-voter-coalition/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/behind-trump... ("Most adults who were eligible to vote in 2020 – but declined to do so – stayed home again in 2024. But among those who did turn out, Trump had the edge. Among all 2020 nonvoters (including those who were too young and ineligible to vote in 2020), 14% supported Trump in 2024 while 12% supported Harris.")
    - oneuntous 10mo ago
      .
      - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
        Observing demographic systems ("demographics are destiny") and its context within a political and governance system, and then building a thesis from those observations is simply academic. Attempting to predict the future isn't a fantasy (death or otherwise) imho, but I do enjoy trying to predict the future from observations and data. But, from your comment "A small price to pay for election integrity," (when elections were already high integrity) I can already deduce your mental model and that it is not grounded in facts or data. Trump wants to stop states from voting by mail and using voting machines - https://www.npr.org/2025/08/18/nx-s1-5506210/trump-mail-in-ballots-ban https://www.npr.org/2025/08/18/nx-s1-5506210/trump-mail-in-b... - August 19th, 2025 > "We're going to start with an executive order that's being written right now by the best lawyers in the country to end mail-in ballots because they're corrupt," Trump said later Monday, during a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House. "And it's time that the Republicans get tough and stop it because the Democrats want it. It's the only way they can get elected." > Although Trump himself urged his supporters to vote using mail ballots prior to the 2024 election, Democrats have been significantly more likely to vote using mail-in ballots, compared to Republicans, since the 2020 election. That gap has only gotten wider in recent elections as GOP-led states have passed more restrictions on this method of voting. > But legal experts say Trump does not have the legal authority to tell states how to run their elections. As the saying goes, "Every accusation is a confession."
silisili 10mo ago
Howso? As far as I could tell, this doesn't actually change anything at all, but more codifies what's already happening. I've had mail collected from my box that wasn't marked until two days later, this feels like it's just attempting to explain why. But if I missed something more nefarious I'm interested to hear.
- dylan604 10mo ago
  Why would something picked up from you box not be considered within the postal system's control? Does your box not get picked up from daily? Also as a slight bit of victim blaming, why would you not drop something of this importance and time sensitive directly into a more controlled drop off?
  - silisili 10mo ago
    > Why would something picked up from you box not be considered within the postal system's control? Does your box not get picked up from daily? It does. I live on a rural route and as far as I can tell it doesn't get postmarked until it actually processes through the closest city's PO. They get backed up sometimes, I guess? > Also as a slight bit of victim blaming, why would you not drop something of this importance and time sensitive directly into a more controlled drop off? It wasn't anything that important - I think it was either a holiday or birthday card. The only reason I knew at all is because the recipient didn't get it until about 7 days later and told me when it was postmarked.
  - rbanffy 10mo ago
    > why would you not drop something of this importance and time sensitive directly into a more controlled drop off? In some places I'm sure there will be ICE deployed to make sure nobody who doesn't look American enough will need to prove they are American before they can vote. In their place I would suggest mailing it early to make sure the vote is counted.
  - ericjmorey 10mo ago
    Why not make it as easy and convenient as possible to let people vote?
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
oneuntous 10mo ago
.
- apgwoz 10mo ago
  Downvoted for the reason that I’ve not seen any credible evidence of massive election fraud, in the USA, since the suggestion of it in 2020. If you can point me to something credible, that proves even 1,000s of votes in a single district were impacted, (thereby stealing an election via mail fraud) I’ll remove my downvote.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
joemi 10mo ago
No it's not. It's just the Post Office trying to save money by being slower. This quote from the article describes it (note the last sentence in particular): "Potential Delays: Because most postmarks are applied at processing facilities, the date inscribed may be later than the date the mail piece was first accepted by the USPS. This discrepancy is expected to become more common due to the implementation of the "Regional Transportation Optimization" (RTO) initiative and the adoption of "leg-based" service standards."

mkehrt 10mo ago

Not sure why you're being downvoted. This is exactly what it is. Now mail-in ballots that previously had to be dropped in the box by election day have to be dropped off days in advance.

azinman2 10mo ago
Or you get a manual stamp.
- mkehrt 10mo ago
  The postmark isn't the stamp (piece of paper). It's the ink seal that's stamped over the stamp with the date on it. It doesn't matter how you pay for the piece of mail; it now potentially get postmarked at a later date than previously.
  - azinman2 10mo ago
    From the article: Request a Manual Postmark: Customers may present a mail piece at a retail counter and request a "manual (local) postmark". This postmark is applied at the time of acceptance, so the date aligns with the date the USPS took possession. I should have said manual postmark but it’s what I implied. They’re stamping or postmarking it with a date manually.
    - wl 10mo ago
      You can request it, but many post offices refuse to hand-cancel anymore.
hinkley 10mo ago
Every voting cycle for at least the last 4 you have seen a certain class of citizen not understand why the early numbers come in from small, rural precincts who can finish early and then the densest areas come in later and vote for other people than their guy. I’m sure that this is being fed by people whose livelihood depends on misunderstanding the problem, but it’s something people should be taught in school and the civics curriculum went away sometime around No Child Left Behind. So this has been going on at least since GW Bush, and some of this bullshit tracks all the way back to Reagan.
- ericjmorey 10mo ago
  Civics is still taught in schools
  - hinkley 10mo ago
    Ask Gen X parents if they really believe that. Every one I’ve heard from complains about the quality and quantity.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]

spankalee 10mo ago

This seems to only clarify that mail might have been in possession by USPS _before_ the postmark date. I don't see how that affects mail in voting.

rbanffy 10mo ago
If the postmark is more than a day after the mail-in deadline, even though it was first received by the local post office before it, it can be claimed there is no evidence it was submitted before the deadline and invalidate the balot.
- teraflop 10mo ago
  That was already the case. This "rule" is not any kind of change in process, it's just a formal acknowledgement that the situation you're describing can happen. Why do you think that acknowledgement is a problem?
  - rbanffy 10mo ago
    Would a ballot received before the deadline, but postmarked a day later, still be counted? If not, why not, if it was received before the deadline?
    - teraflop 10mo ago
      You're muddying the waters by using the word "received". The instant in time at which your letter is technically "received" by the USPS, in the sense of them having physical possession, has never mattered for any legal purposes whatsoever. That's because in many cases, there is absolutely no physical proof of exactly what instant in time that event happened. Electoral rules aren't written based on when the USPS received your ballot, because that's typically unprovable. They're either based on when the ballot was delivered to the election office, or when the ballot was postmarked. The postmarking may happen at some point while the piece of mail is in USPS custody, or it may not happen at all if you don't specifically ask for it. The rules are based on the postmark date because the postmark date is the only available documentary evidence of the date of mailing. Again, this is not a change in policy, it's merely documenting the way the mail system has always worked.

toomuchtodo 10mo ago

Lots of folks might need to mail early or show up in person until regime change as governance infrastructure is sabotaged or degraded by people who might not otherwise be able to win.

dylan604 10mo ago
i think your logic is flawed. these people were clearly able to win without these changes
- toomuchtodo 10mo ago
  The same number of 55+ voters in the US that was the margin of victor for this election die in a year (~2M, ~5k/day). I admit, I'm unsure if those who voted for this have felt sufficient pain yet to vote better, and the votes of those who don't age out by election deadlines are hard to predict, but election results since the presidential election have been very favorable. NYC and Seattle have both elected democratic socialist mayors recently. Certainly, I have no doubt deep red parts of the country will continue to vote for this until death, but those parts of the country also have lower life expectency. https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1puwkpj/democrats_overperform_by_double_digits_in_south/nvrz8lo/ https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1puwkpj/democrats... https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/behind-trumps-2024-victory-a-more-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-voter-coalition/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/behind-trump... ("Most adults who were eligible to vote in 2020 – but declined to do so – stayed home again in 2024. But among those who did turn out, Trump had the edge. Among all 2020 nonvoters (including those who were too young and ineligible to vote in 2020), 14% supported Trump in 2024 while 12% supported Harris.")
  - oneuntous 10mo ago
    .
    - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      Observing demographic systems ("demographics are destiny") and its context within a political and governance system, and then building a thesis from those observations is simply academic. Attempting to predict the future isn't a fantasy (death or otherwise) imho, but I do enjoy trying to predict the future from observations and data. But, from your comment "A small price to pay for election integrity," (when elections were already high integrity) I can already deduce your mental model and that it is not grounded in facts or data. Trump wants to stop states from voting by mail and using voting machines - https://www.npr.org/2025/08/18/nx-s1-5506210/trump-mail-in-ballots-ban https://www.npr.org/2025/08/18/nx-s1-5506210/trump-mail-in-b... - August 19th, 2025 > "We're going to start with an executive order that's being written right now by the best lawyers in the country to end mail-in ballots because they're corrupt," Trump said later Monday, during a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House. "And it's time that the Republicans get tough and stop it because the Democrats want it. It's the only way they can get elected." > Although Trump himself urged his supporters to vote using mail ballots prior to the 2024 election, Democrats have been significantly more likely to vote using mail-in ballots, compared to Republicans, since the 2020 election. That gap has only gotten wider in recent elections as GOP-led states have passed more restrictions on this method of voting. > But legal experts say Trump does not have the legal authority to tell states how to run their elections. As the saying goes, "Every accusation is a confession."

silisili 10mo ago

Howso? As far as I could tell, this doesn't actually change anything at all, but more codifies what's already happening. I've had mail collected from my box that wasn't marked until two days later, this feels like it's just attempting to explain why. But if I missed something more nefarious I'm interested to hear.

dylan604 10mo ago
Why would something picked up from you box not be considered within the postal system's control? Does your box not get picked up from daily? Also as a slight bit of victim blaming, why would you not drop something of this importance and time sensitive directly into a more controlled drop off?
- silisili 10mo ago
  > Why would something picked up from you box not be considered within the postal system's control? Does your box not get picked up from daily? It does. I live on a rural route and as far as I can tell it doesn't get postmarked until it actually processes through the closest city's PO. They get backed up sometimes, I guess? > Also as a slight bit of victim blaming, why would you not drop something of this importance and time sensitive directly into a more controlled drop off? It wasn't anything that important - I think it was either a holiday or birthday card. The only reason I knew at all is because the recipient didn't get it until about 7 days later and told me when it was postmarked.
- rbanffy 10mo ago
  > why would you not drop something of this importance and time sensitive directly into a more controlled drop off? In some places I'm sure there will be ICE deployed to make sure nobody who doesn't look American enough will need to prove they are American before they can vote. In their place I would suggest mailing it early to make sure the vote is counted.
- ericjmorey 10mo ago
  Why not make it as easy and convenient as possible to let people vote?

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

oneuntous 10mo ago

apgwoz 10mo ago
Downvoted for the reason that I’ve not seen any credible evidence of massive election fraud, in the USA, since the suggestion of it in 2020. If you can point me to something credible, that proves even 1,000s of votes in a single district were impacted, (thereby stealing an election via mail fraud) I’ll remove my downvote.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]

joemi 10mo ago

No it's not. It's just the Post Office trying to save money by being slower. This quote from the article describes it (note the last sentence in particular): "Potential Delays: Because most postmarks are applied at processing facilities, the date inscribed may be later than the date the mail piece was first accepted by the USPS. This discrepancy is expected to become more common due to the implementation of the "Regional Transportation Optimization" (RTO) initiative and the adoption of "leg-based" service standards."