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The haters on here are ridiculous. If everyone who ever had a product that failed in the market was called a fraud on HN then probably almost everyone would be
by narrator 10mo ago
The haters on here are ridiculous. If everyone who ever had a product that failed in the market was called a fraud on HN then probably almost everyone would be. SpaceX failed on their first three launches. All the haters here would have voted to shut it all down. Glad Elon's able to recover from business failures without going to the HN comments section to find out what he should do next.
- DustinBrett 10mo ago[flagged]
- refurb 10mo ago[flagged]
- simondotau 10mo agoI still remember when people were laughing at the Tesla Model 3 as vapourware, as a scam, and proof that Musk was operating a ponzi scheme.
- DangitBobby 10mo agoIt never did become affordable.
- simondotau 10mo agoIt’s affordable relative to the definition of affordable given at the time. The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. That's $28,600 in 2016 dollars.
- miltonlost 10mo agoBackwards in time affordability to bend over backwards for a nazi saluter.
- simondotau 10mo agoIf you have a good argument, it will withstand the bare minimum of logical analysis, such as the factoring the consequences of inflation. On a personal note I don’t find the CEO of most companies to be particularly interesting or important, and I include Tesla in that. Obsessing over personalities is the furthest from interesting as it gets for me.
- breve 10mo agoSo Tesla is not a bunch of liars after all? Just misunderstood?
- breve 10mo agoI still remember when Tesla was going to sell 20 million cars per year: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-drops-reference-its-goal-delivering-20-mln-vehicles-annually-impact-report-2024-05-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Now, mysteriously, Tesla's new target is 20 million in total by 2035: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-pay-trillionaire.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-... That'll be fewer cars sold in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years. And, given that Tesla is typically full of lies and hype, maybe they won't even achieve the new target.
- simondotau 10mo agoI can’t control the stock price or the hype cycle. I’m only interested in past and present outcomes.
- breve 10mo agoThe present outcome is Tesla's sales are down for the second year in a row even though the global EV market is growing. That result comes from a combination of competition, product flops, and self-inflicted brand damage. Swasticars aren't good for sales.
- simondotau 10mo agoI guess Telsa will take care of itself then. No point hyping up its demise.
- breve 10mo agoNo point defending it either.
- simondotau 9mo agoThere is absolutely a point. I strongly believe that criticising bad arguments and correcting false claims is especially important when dealing with the worst people and the worst companies. Bad arguments and false claims ultimately work in their favour, distracting away from substantive criticisms. Don’t hand them that advantage.
- NewLogic 10mo agoI'm for startups that don't defraud their customers with a proven track record of lying.
- refurb 10mo agoOver promising is fraud. The hyperbole doesn’t help your argument at all.
- doublerabbit 10mo agoWhat part is hyperbole? Too many to quote but https://elonmusk.today https://elonmusk.today hosts an intensive list of his lies.
- DustinBrett 10mo ago[flagged]
- ImPostingOnHN 10mo agoPlease don't post shallow attacks of other contributors like this on HN: It detracts from the quality of the forum. Maybe save the behavior for twitter or gab or truth or whatever is the new one these days.
- refurb 10mo agoMaking predictions that don't come true is no fraud. Calling it fraud it hyperbole. And Jesus some people have more time on their hands than they know what to do with making a site like that. Imagine if they put their efforts into productive uses!
- StackRanker3000 10mo agoSo the only two options you can imagine entail his detractors being irrational and emotional? You can not comprehend that anyone can have any valid complaint regarding him and his behavior at all? Musk has accomplished some remarkable things, by having grand visions, ruthlessly executing on them, and being willing to repeatedly take on a massive amount of risk. If that had been all, I don’t think many people would be decrying him like this. It’s still easy to justify admiring those bits, if you’re so inclined But he has also done a lot of things that make him unlikable and are harder to justify. He happily whips up massive amounts of hype, regardless of how likely his claims are to actually manifest (which is a large part of why the Tesla stock price is where it’s at). He sucks himself off at every possible turn, and takes dubious personal credit for a lot of things his companies achieve. He is vindictive and has exacted retribution on people with much less power than him (or pouts about it in an undignified fashion when the opponent is too powerful to crush, like the SEC). He has an easily bruised ego and lashes out in a very childish manner (remember the diver he called a pedo on Twitter). He enters into realms he has no expertise in and proclaims to the whole world that he has all the answers. He directly interferes in US and world politics by wielding his wealth and influence, sometimes with disastrous results (it doesn’t help that his political views usually are unsophisticated and immature, especially since he acts so certain of them). Etc, etc Basically, he’s a dickhead that thinks he’s the best in the world at everything, and many of whose actions are detrimental to both individuals and the world at large. He doesn’t get a free pass for that just because he’s done some impressive things with his businesses
- cjbgkagh 10mo agoElon has done sufficiently impressive things which is why it’s sad that he has to make up a whole bunch of new things to try to impress people. Being the richest man alive is not enough he also has to be the best gamer as well. If he lies about small things that don’t matter then how could I trust him to tell the truth on important things that do matter.
- claytongulick 10mo agoBecause people can be more than one thing, and aren't perfect?
- cjbgkagh 10mo agoPerfect was not the bar that was set. Elon can be the richest person in the world and a lair at the same time. It's about what kind of person lies about being one of the best gamers in the world when clearly they're not. This is of course not the only thing he has lied about but it is possibly the pettiest. And possibly the stupidest because the very people it was supposed to impress were going to find out near instantly and now despise him for it. Consider his foray into politics, it wasn't enough to sway the elections with a large sum of money he also had to insert himself into the process. In addition to being the best gamer he was trying to be the best politician - the result was a catastrophic failure. I'm still pretty convinced Adrian Dittmann is his sock puppet account and his attempt at being the best streamer as well. Done 'anonymously' to make the case that he's not bootstrapping on his other successes but not too anonymously to avoid being totally irrelevant.
- claytongulick 10mo agoSo, do you hold yourself to the same standard?
- cjbgkagh 10mo agoYes