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Anna's Archive and Sci-Hub. So despite their facade the German government is just as draconian as the US.

by nik282000 9mo ago

crazygringo 9mo ago
Despite what facade?
- easterncalculus 9mo ago
  The frequently repeated keystone lie that Europeans have equivalent or greater rights, freedoms, and protection from authoritarianism than Americans, which is and has always been objectively and completely false.
  - cedilla 9mo ago
    Well, when fascists are in power, paper won't help anyone. But at this point, as a European I enjoy enumerated human and civil rights from multiple constitutions and several international treaties, which are directly enforceable by courts at the state, national, and European level. The human and civil rights guaranteed by the US constitution are a complete joke in comparison, and most of them are not guaranteed directly constitution, but by Supreme Court interpretation of vague 18th century law that can change at any time.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - pessimizer 9mo ago
      You seem to have missed the Bill of Rights. Which is odd, because whenever we tell you during online arguments that our rights are guaranteed, you all say that absolute rights are dumb and it's actually more sophisticated and European to not have them. Not that courts, legislators, and administrations haven't tried and succeeded in abridging them somewhat in any number of different ways for shorter or longer periods, but the text remains, and can always be referred to in the end. They have to abuse the language in order to abridge the Bill of Rights, and eventually that passes the point of absurdity. No such challenge in Europe. Every "right" is the right to do something unless it is not allowed.
  - oezi 9mo ago
    Well according to press freedom indices many European countries and the US are quite similarly ranked. Some countries better some countries worse. Some countries have stronger institutions against dictatorships than others but unfortunately we have seen that even the US isn't immune and that slides auch as in Poland and Hungary are possible. There is always hope that things can turn around (as in Poland even though the road is hard and there are setbacks)
  - amarant 9mo ago
    Citation? Every democracy index I've ever heard of rates most of Europe as more democratic than the US. (Eastern Europe will typically be rated lower, all of the former USSR states seem to be struggling with various degrees of corruption or similar problems) The most commonly used index for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
    - snvzz 9mo ago
      Even assuming that index is of any worth, Democracy is not the same thing as rights, freedoms, or protection from authoritarianism
  - TacticalCoder 9mo ago
    As an european living and feeding of mostly US sources online, I completely agree. In the US people do really have freedom of speech. This doesn't exist in the EU. Just try to say 1/10th of what you can say in the US and you'll be thrown behind bars in the EU. The biggest one being that most newspapers in the EU are state-controlled, Pravda-style, propagandist outlet pushing pro-EU narratives. Once you live across several EU countries and speak several languages, you can see how all the topics are synched and pushing the exact same narrative. Basically: the EU is very good at producing people repeating that the EU is great. To me the biggest problem is that the EU Commission is way too busy turning the EU into a totalitarian nightmare instead of trying to compete economically with the US and China. As a result in 17 years China's GDP went from $4 trillion to $20 trillion, surpassing the GDP of the eurozone (which only grew 25%: 25% vs 400%). That's an abysmal failure and the EU is sinking and it shows anywhere you go to in the EU: cities are becoming shitholes at an alarming speed. And everything is done to try to damage control and prevent people from talking about what is ongoing. The EU is heading straight into a wall (actually it already hit it). I want out.
    - snvzz 9mo ago
      >I want out. Asia is not so bad. Try Japan. I do not miss Europe, so you could say it worked out for me.
fuzzy2 9mo ago
The government or even courts are not involved with these blocks.
dewey 9mo ago
The main complaint about these blocks is that they are managed and decided on by private companies and _not_ by the government / law.
- dark-star 9mo ago
  they are still optional for the ISPs though. But if they don't implement them, they will have dozens of lawsuits to handle, that is why many ISPs say "fuck it" and just implement the blocks, to save money on their legal team
almostgotcaught 9mo ago
> German government is just as draconian as the US this is called "disinformation"
- trelane 9mo ago
  I honestly cannot tell if this is serious, or irony, or even meta-irony.
  - oezi 9mo ago
    If I understand it right, then OP likely believes that Germany has a draconian regime when it comes to freedom of speech (which is objectively just ridiculous give or take some German nuances). OP thus wants to make fun of those (such as me) who are puzzled by a statement that Germany could be considered a draconian state with regards to freedom of speech. It is hard to engage OP because he likely isn't German and has no personal knowledge and experience at all if any of his speech would be censored in Germany. Calling OP disinformed maybe isn't quite correct, maybe misinformed would fit better.
- like_any_other 9mo ago
  They are considering banning the largest opposition party, are using wiretaps and informants against it [1], have banned (ban since lifted) a magazine [2], and opened a criminal investigation into someone calling a fat politician fat online [3]. They are openly planning even worse [4] (if you dislike the author, keep in mind every claim is sourced, so take it up with the sources). [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/13/court-confirms-german-intelligence-surveillance-of-extremist-afd https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/13/court-confirms-germ... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-compact-press-freedom-right-wing-extremism-leipzig/a-72860076 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-compact-press-freedom-right-wi... [3] https://www.foxnews.com/media/germany-started-criminal-investigation-social-media-user-calling-female-politician-fat https://www.foxnews.com/media/germany-started-criminal-inves... [4] Germany announces wide-ranging plans to restrict the speech, travel and economic activity of political dissidents, in order to better control the "thought and speech patterns" of its own people - https://www.eugyppius.com/p/germany-announces-wide-ranging-plans https://www.eugyppius.com/p/germany-announces-wide-ranging-p... Edit as reply to nosianu, because I am "posting too fast": > Liar. Some demand it - but it is not considered by those with the power to actually do it, not even close. On Monday, the center-left Social Democratic Party (SPD), which is currently serving as the junior coalition partner in Berlin’s conservative-led government, voted unanimously to begin efforts to outlaw [AfD]. - https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-politics-analysis-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-po... The Jewish German intelligence chief trying to ban the AfD - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/09/jewish-germany-intelligence-chief-trying-ban-afd/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/09/jewish-ger... I would not call the head of German intelligence and ruling coalition parties "not even close". Kindly save that liar label for yourself. > The AfD happily participates in state and federal elections and is in the federal parliament (Bundestag). "Considering" means they haven't done it yet. Some tried, but have not yet succeeded.
oezi 9mo ago
Is it draconian that piracy sites aren't resolved by some ISPs' DNS? Is it draconian if no Government entity is involved? And the penalty is unavailability? I thought draconian implies that the punishment is much too high in relationship to the crime. Maybe the whole affair is more dystopian rather than draconian: ISPs block access to media even though no law or government asked them to just so they have less hassle with rightholders.

Anna's Archive and Sci-Hub. So despite their facade the German government is just as draconian as the US.

crazygringo 9mo ago

Despite what facade?

easterncalculus 9mo ago
The frequently repeated keystone lie that Europeans have equivalent or greater rights, freedoms, and protection from authoritarianism than Americans, which is and has always been objectively and completely false.
- cedilla 9mo ago
  Well, when fascists are in power, paper won't help anyone. But at this point, as a European I enjoy enumerated human and civil rights from multiple constitutions and several international treaties, which are directly enforceable by courts at the state, national, and European level. The human and civil rights guaranteed by the US constitution are a complete joke in comparison, and most of them are not guaranteed directly constitution, but by Supreme Court interpretation of vague 18th century law that can change at any time.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - pessimizer 9mo ago
    You seem to have missed the Bill of Rights. Which is odd, because whenever we tell you during online arguments that our rights are guaranteed, you all say that absolute rights are dumb and it's actually more sophisticated and European to not have them. Not that courts, legislators, and administrations haven't tried and succeeded in abridging them somewhat in any number of different ways for shorter or longer periods, but the text remains, and can always be referred to in the end. They have to abuse the language in order to abridge the Bill of Rights, and eventually that passes the point of absurdity. No such challenge in Europe. Every "right" is the right to do something unless it is not allowed.
- oezi 9mo ago
  Well according to press freedom indices many European countries and the US are quite similarly ranked. Some countries better some countries worse. Some countries have stronger institutions against dictatorships than others but unfortunately we have seen that even the US isn't immune and that slides auch as in Poland and Hungary are possible. There is always hope that things can turn around (as in Poland even though the road is hard and there are setbacks)
- amarant 9mo ago
  Citation? Every democracy index I've ever heard of rates most of Europe as more democratic than the US. (Eastern Europe will typically be rated lower, all of the former USSR states seem to be struggling with various degrees of corruption or similar problems) The most commonly used index for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
  - snvzz 9mo ago
    Even assuming that index is of any worth, Democracy is not the same thing as rights, freedoms, or protection from authoritarianism
- TacticalCoder 9mo ago
  As an european living and feeding of mostly US sources online, I completely agree. In the US people do really have freedom of speech. This doesn't exist in the EU. Just try to say 1/10th of what you can say in the US and you'll be thrown behind bars in the EU. The biggest one being that most newspapers in the EU are state-controlled, Pravda-style, propagandist outlet pushing pro-EU narratives. Once you live across several EU countries and speak several languages, you can see how all the topics are synched and pushing the exact same narrative. Basically: the EU is very good at producing people repeating that the EU is great. To me the biggest problem is that the EU Commission is way too busy turning the EU into a totalitarian nightmare instead of trying to compete economically with the US and China. As a result in 17 years China's GDP went from $4 trillion to $20 trillion, surpassing the GDP of the eurozone (which only grew 25%: 25% vs 400%). That's an abysmal failure and the EU is sinking and it shows anywhere you go to in the EU: cities are becoming shitholes at an alarming speed. And everything is done to try to damage control and prevent people from talking about what is ongoing. The EU is heading straight into a wall (actually it already hit it). I want out.
  - snvzz 9mo ago
    >I want out. Asia is not so bad. Try Japan. I do not miss Europe, so you could say it worked out for me.

fuzzy2 9mo ago

The government or even courts are not involved with these blocks.

dewey 9mo ago

The main complaint about these blocks is that they are managed and decided on by private companies and _not_ by the government / law.

dark-star 9mo ago
they are still optional for the ISPs though. But if they don't implement them, they will have dozens of lawsuits to handle, that is why many ISPs say "fuck it" and just implement the blocks, to save money on their legal team

almostgotcaught 9mo ago

> German government is just as draconian as the US this is called "disinformation"

trelane 9mo ago
I honestly cannot tell if this is serious, or irony, or even meta-irony.
- oezi 9mo ago
  If I understand it right, then OP likely believes that Germany has a draconian regime when it comes to freedom of speech (which is objectively just ridiculous give or take some German nuances). OP thus wants to make fun of those (such as me) who are puzzled by a statement that Germany could be considered a draconian state with regards to freedom of speech. It is hard to engage OP because he likely isn't German and has no personal knowledge and experience at all if any of his speech would be censored in Germany. Calling OP disinformed maybe isn't quite correct, maybe misinformed would fit better.
like_any_other 9mo ago
They are considering banning the largest opposition party, are using wiretaps and informants against it [1], have banned (ban since lifted) a magazine [2], and opened a criminal investigation into someone calling a fat politician fat online [3]. They are openly planning even worse [4] (if you dislike the author, keep in mind every claim is sourced, so take it up with the sources). [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/13/court-confirms-german-intelligence-surveillance-of-extremist-afd https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/13/court-confirms-germ... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-compact-press-freedom-right-wing-extremism-leipzig/a-72860076 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-compact-press-freedom-right-wi... [3] https://www.foxnews.com/media/germany-started-criminal-investigation-social-media-user-calling-female-politician-fat https://www.foxnews.com/media/germany-started-criminal-inves... [4] Germany announces wide-ranging plans to restrict the speech, travel and economic activity of political dissidents, in order to better control the "thought and speech patterns" of its own people - https://www.eugyppius.com/p/germany-announces-wide-ranging-plans https://www.eugyppius.com/p/germany-announces-wide-ranging-p... Edit as reply to nosianu, because I am "posting too fast": > Liar. Some demand it - but it is not considered by those with the power to actually do it, not even close. On Monday, the center-left Social Democratic Party (SPD), which is currently serving as the junior coalition partner in Berlin’s conservative-led government, voted unanimously to begin efforts to outlaw [AfD]. - https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-politics-analysis-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-po... The Jewish German intelligence chief trying to ban the AfD - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/09/jewish-germany-intelligence-chief-trying-ban-afd/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/09/jewish-ger... I would not call the head of German intelligence and ruling coalition parties "not even close". Kindly save that liar label for yourself. > The AfD happily participates in state and federal elections and is in the federal parliament (Bundestag). "Considering" means they haven't done it yet. Some tried, but have not yet succeeded.

oezi 9mo ago

Is it draconian that piracy sites aren't resolved by some ISPs' DNS? Is it draconian if no Government entity is involved? And the penalty is unavailability? I thought draconian implies that the punishment is much too high in relationship to the crime. Maybe the whole affair is more dystopian rather than draconian: ISPs block access to media even though no law or government asked them to just so they have less hassle with rightholders.