33 ms·

i don't understand americans, two years ago i wanted a tesla, now i want a byd, you've let down the only american company competing against the chinese, all bec

by netdur 9mo ago

i don't understand americans, two years ago i wanted a tesla, now i want a byd, you've let down the only american company competing against the chinese, all because of trump and politics

malshe 9mo ago
Americans? Elon Musk is one person. He might be the richest person in the world but he doesn't represent us.
anderber 9mo ago
I think you're underselling what Trump and Musk has done to the stability of Democracy in the US. Aside from all that, there are other American car manufacturers with great EVs: Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Equinox/Bolt/Blazer, etc. Not saying that BYD isn't better, but comparing to Tesla, there is plenty of US competition.
- csa 9mo ago
  > Aside from all that, there are other American car manufacturers with great EVs: Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Equinox/Bolt/Blazer, etc. Teslas aren’t perfect, and they are definitely starting to get a bit dated, but the list you made has precisely zero “great EVs” imho.
  - anderber 9mo ago
    All opinions I suppose, huh?
  - rootusrootus 9mo ago
    They are as good as any Tesla, however, and in some areas better. Source: I own a Tesla Model 3 (my second) and I have owned a Bolt in the past, and currently own a Lightning. Aside from towing range, I prefer the Lightning the majority of the time. Tesla does some things better, while Ford excels in other ways. Both definitely have glaring faults.
    - jfoster 9mo ago
      Can you provide an example of something that the Tesla doesn't do well that the others do better?
      - rootusrootus 9mo ago
        I will stick to the Lightning since I know it best: 1. The Lightning auto-resumes lane centering after a lane switch, Tesla requires manually restarting (along with the annoyances which accompany that, like re-enabling auto wipers every single time). 2. CarPlay. (Which presumably Tesla is finally going to bring us.) Responding to text messages while driving is easier and less fussy with CarPlay (plus, if you are used to how CarPlay works, you will forget that after you dictate a reply to a text message in the Tesla you need to hit the send button on the screen). iMessages to non-phone recipients works with CarPlay but not at all with Tesla. 3. The Ford app lets me set a one-off "charge to 100%" flag which automatically resets to the previous setting after that charge. 4. And even though it is so obvious that it is probably boring to point out at this point, the rain sensing wipers on the Lightning actually work. The Tesla dry wipes, or not at all even when it is pouring, and everything in between. 5. The Lightning has radar. Without a lead car my Tesla remains prone to phantom braking at overpasses on bright sunny days. I have not ever had phantom braking on my pickup. 6. Windows. No amount of recalibration makes my Tesla windows go up exactly into the right position to be sealed. And pushing the button again just makes them lower slightly. So you have to monkey with it a couple times to make the sound of wind next to your ear go silent. I've never had a car amongst the dozens I've owned that got this basic functionality wrong, but both of my Teslas have struggled with it. 7. Comfort. Ford does not vertically integrate production of the interior and seats, and it shows. Nor do they cut corners on insulation. Someone else in this thread said that interiors were an inexpensive way for incumbents to differentiate from Tesla but I disagree on one point -- I think good interior design is expensive, which is exactly why Tesla does basically nothing. So the road noise is excessive and the flat, thin, barely bolstered seats are uncomfortable if you don't have enough built-in padding on your butt. Ford just outsources, probably to someone like Recaro, who has infinitely more experience making seats that don't suck. First the Bolt, and then the Lightning has convinced me that there is no special sauce. I have a pickup that drives like my Tesla, but is still a pickup with all of the upsides and still has a comfy normal interior without the quirks. Tesla won't get any more of my business, for example, until they bring back the stalks and put in an IR rain sensor. They may eventually do both of these (I think they may have already started caving on the stalks). But now that I know that there are other options at least as good, I'm more picky and less accepting of the persistent cost cutting.
  - mpyne 9mo ago
    I absolutely prefer my Ioniq 5 over a Tesla, not merely 'tolerate it'. Tesla has everyone else beat on charging infrastructure, that is true, but I don't need that except for about 0.5% of the miles I drive (and even there, Tesla's competitors exist and are fine on the routes I'd take).
    - jfoster 9mo ago
      Is there any part in particular with the Ioniq 5 that you find is better than a Tesla?
      - mpyne 9mo ago
        A lot more manual controls, in particular. I've never liked needing to use a touchscreen to manage functions of the car I might need to use while driving. Ioniq could actually go further still, some of the physical interface still uses a capacitive button rather than a physical button, but it is at least single-function so I can trace my hand along the bottom and the button I want is always in the same spot. I like that by default it is set to two-pedal drive, especially in case I end up having to use an ICE or hybrid car (or have other drivers use my Ioniq). I like that I have a key fob and there's a physical interaction I need to make to turn the car on. I like that it supports Android Auto. I think the styling is much better. I haven't sat in a Tesla long enough to give a direct comparison but the Ioniq interior is in the top quarter of cars I've driven. It's not all roses, there's been Ioniq drivers run into ICCU issues that you don't really see the equivalent of with Tesla, but if I run into that then I'll just take it as a warranty item. Edit: I forgot about the turn signal stalks but that was a primary thing for me as well, I literally thought it was some kind of anti-Tesla meme at first that they didn't have normal turn signals, until I verified it for myself.
bdcravens 9mo ago
Elon's personality has been known before he ever came out in support of Trump. Think back to when he called someone trying to rescue kids a "pedo" because they ignored his idea of building a submarine. Moreover, his inability to deliver on promises has been a well-known fact for years.
- modeless 9mo ago
  He regularly delivers on promises. What he consistently fails to deliver on is timelines.
  - yibg 9mo ago
    I guess that's true if you stretch timelines to infinity. I'm still waiting on: - L5 autonomous driving - $35k Teslas - Hyperloop - Lunar trips to the moon on spacex - Humans on Mars But I guess if we just consider those delayed, then all good.
    - simondotau 9mo ago
      The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. In 2016 dollars, that's $28,600.
    - modeless 9mo ago
      FSD 14.2 is available to the public and anyone who has tried it can tell you it is an incredibly impressive system that is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was just six months ago and by far the best available to purchase worldwide. FSD robotaxis with no people in them have been seen on the streets of Austin. I expect that this one is within two years of being done. As has been pointed out, the Model 3 has been below $35k inflation adjusted many times. There's been a lot of inflation, you may have noticed. And if that's not good enough for you, they did actually sell a $35k model for a while, though I doubt they made money on it. I don't recall Elon promising that he would build a hyperloop on any timeline. In fact I remember him saying that he wasn't going to work on it personally. SpaceX is under contract with NASA to build the Moon lander. I don't know what else you want here. Humans on Mars is still SpaceX's main objective and their actions are consistent with that. Nobody would have started the insanely ambitious Starship program just to launch things into Earth orbit or the Moon. I won't go through all the things that Elon has promised and achieved late, but the list is long and impressive.
dyauspitr 9mo ago
Being a Nazi is a huge red line
kelseyfrog 9mo ago
We voted with our wallets. Between communism and Nazis, communism was the lesser evil. This is Musk's WW3.
- engineer_22 9mo ago
  Communism has killed hundreds of millions of innocent people. It's not cute or funny.
  - heavyset_go 9mo ago
    Every decade, global capitalism decides that 100 million people don't need to eat and they get to starve to death. In the same time period, slightly less than that die from lack of medical care the market decides they don't need. And that's just contemporary capitalism. Hundreds of millions starved in famines, and starving people got to watch as the food they themselves harvested was shipped to markets that would pay more for it. Millions were enslaved, and cultures, races and communities were wiped off the faces of continents in the name of profit.
    - msuniverse2026 9mo ago
      Yeah and the last century of capitalism created such a boom of food that it increased the population of the world by like 5 billion people
      - simondotau 9mo ago
        And created such a boom of medicine that one can assert that the poorest among us should be entitled to it, and not have that assertion dismissed for being literally impossible.
      - heavyset_go 9mo ago
        If only the market didn't decide that hundreds of millions of those people don't need to eat
slashdave 9mo ago
You had the opportunity to blame one person or an entire country. Which did you choose?
- epistasis 9mo ago
  There's both collective blame for the US, and also individual blame for the idiocy of Musk. No choice necessary.
- onraglanroad 9mo ago
  The country that chose the one person?

by netdur 9mo ago

i don't understand americans, two years ago i wanted a tesla, now i want a byd, you've let down the only american company competing against the chinese, all because of trump and politics

malshe 9mo ago

Americans? Elon Musk is one person. He might be the richest person in the world but he doesn't represent us.

anderber 9mo ago

I think you're underselling what Trump and Musk has done to the stability of Democracy in the US. Aside from all that, there are other American car manufacturers with great EVs: Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Equinox/Bolt/Blazer, etc. Not saying that BYD isn't better, but comparing to Tesla, there is plenty of US competition.

csa 9mo ago
> Aside from all that, there are other American car manufacturers with great EVs: Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Equinox/Bolt/Blazer, etc. Teslas aren’t perfect, and they are definitely starting to get a bit dated, but the list you made has precisely zero “great EVs” imho.
- anderber 9mo ago
  All opinions I suppose, huh?
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  They are as good as any Tesla, however, and in some areas better. Source: I own a Tesla Model 3 (my second) and I have owned a Bolt in the past, and currently own a Lightning. Aside from towing range, I prefer the Lightning the majority of the time. Tesla does some things better, while Ford excels in other ways. Both definitely have glaring faults.
  - jfoster 9mo ago
    Can you provide an example of something that the Tesla doesn't do well that the others do better?
    - rootusrootus 9mo ago
      I will stick to the Lightning since I know it best: 1. The Lightning auto-resumes lane centering after a lane switch, Tesla requires manually restarting (along with the annoyances which accompany that, like re-enabling auto wipers every single time). 2. CarPlay. (Which presumably Tesla is finally going to bring us.) Responding to text messages while driving is easier and less fussy with CarPlay (plus, if you are used to how CarPlay works, you will forget that after you dictate a reply to a text message in the Tesla you need to hit the send button on the screen). iMessages to non-phone recipients works with CarPlay but not at all with Tesla. 3. The Ford app lets me set a one-off "charge to 100%" flag which automatically resets to the previous setting after that charge. 4. And even though it is so obvious that it is probably boring to point out at this point, the rain sensing wipers on the Lightning actually work. The Tesla dry wipes, or not at all even when it is pouring, and everything in between. 5. The Lightning has radar. Without a lead car my Tesla remains prone to phantom braking at overpasses on bright sunny days. I have not ever had phantom braking on my pickup. 6. Windows. No amount of recalibration makes my Tesla windows go up exactly into the right position to be sealed. And pushing the button again just makes them lower slightly. So you have to monkey with it a couple times to make the sound of wind next to your ear go silent. I've never had a car amongst the dozens I've owned that got this basic functionality wrong, but both of my Teslas have struggled with it. 7. Comfort. Ford does not vertically integrate production of the interior and seats, and it shows. Nor do they cut corners on insulation. Someone else in this thread said that interiors were an inexpensive way for incumbents to differentiate from Tesla but I disagree on one point -- I think good interior design is expensive, which is exactly why Tesla does basically nothing. So the road noise is excessive and the flat, thin, barely bolstered seats are uncomfortable if you don't have enough built-in padding on your butt. Ford just outsources, probably to someone like Recaro, who has infinitely more experience making seats that don't suck. First the Bolt, and then the Lightning has convinced me that there is no special sauce. I have a pickup that drives like my Tesla, but is still a pickup with all of the upsides and still has a comfy normal interior without the quirks. Tesla won't get any more of my business, for example, until they bring back the stalks and put in an IR rain sensor. They may eventually do both of these (I think they may have already started caving on the stalks). But now that I know that there are other options at least as good, I'm more picky and less accepting of the persistent cost cutting.
- mpyne 9mo ago
  I absolutely prefer my Ioniq 5 over a Tesla, not merely 'tolerate it'. Tesla has everyone else beat on charging infrastructure, that is true, but I don't need that except for about 0.5% of the miles I drive (and even there, Tesla's competitors exist and are fine on the routes I'd take).
  - jfoster 9mo ago
    Is there any part in particular with the Ioniq 5 that you find is better than a Tesla?
    - mpyne 9mo ago
      A lot more manual controls, in particular. I've never liked needing to use a touchscreen to manage functions of the car I might need to use while driving. Ioniq could actually go further still, some of the physical interface still uses a capacitive button rather than a physical button, but it is at least single-function so I can trace my hand along the bottom and the button I want is always in the same spot. I like that by default it is set to two-pedal drive, especially in case I end up having to use an ICE or hybrid car (or have other drivers use my Ioniq). I like that I have a key fob and there's a physical interaction I need to make to turn the car on. I like that it supports Android Auto. I think the styling is much better. I haven't sat in a Tesla long enough to give a direct comparison but the Ioniq interior is in the top quarter of cars I've driven. It's not all roses, there's been Ioniq drivers run into ICCU issues that you don't really see the equivalent of with Tesla, but if I run into that then I'll just take it as a warranty item. Edit: I forgot about the turn signal stalks but that was a primary thing for me as well, I literally thought it was some kind of anti-Tesla meme at first that they didn't have normal turn signals, until I verified it for myself.

bdcravens 9mo ago

Elon's personality has been known before he ever came out in support of Trump. Think back to when he called someone trying to rescue kids a "pedo" because they ignored his idea of building a submarine. Moreover, his inability to deliver on promises has been a well-known fact for years.

modeless 9mo ago
He regularly delivers on promises. What he consistently fails to deliver on is timelines.
- yibg 9mo ago
  I guess that's true if you stretch timelines to infinity. I'm still waiting on: - L5 autonomous driving - $35k Teslas - Hyperloop - Lunar trips to the moon on spacex - Humans on Mars But I guess if we just consider those delayed, then all good.
  - simondotau 9mo ago
    The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. In 2016 dollars, that's $28,600.
  - modeless 9mo ago
    FSD 14.2 is available to the public and anyone who has tried it can tell you it is an incredibly impressive system that is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was just six months ago and by far the best available to purchase worldwide. FSD robotaxis with no people in them have been seen on the streets of Austin. I expect that this one is within two years of being done. As has been pointed out, the Model 3 has been below $35k inflation adjusted many times. There's been a lot of inflation, you may have noticed. And if that's not good enough for you, they did actually sell a $35k model for a while, though I doubt they made money on it. I don't recall Elon promising that he would build a hyperloop on any timeline. In fact I remember him saying that he wasn't going to work on it personally. SpaceX is under contract with NASA to build the Moon lander. I don't know what else you want here. Humans on Mars is still SpaceX's main objective and their actions are consistent with that. Nobody would have started the insanely ambitious Starship program just to launch things into Earth orbit or the Moon. I won't go through all the things that Elon has promised and achieved late, but the list is long and impressive.

dyauspitr 9mo ago

Being a Nazi is a huge red line

kelseyfrog 9mo ago

We voted with our wallets. Between communism and Nazis, communism was the lesser evil. This is Musk's WW3.

engineer_22 9mo ago
Communism has killed hundreds of millions of innocent people. It's not cute or funny.
- heavyset_go 9mo ago
  Every decade, global capitalism decides that 100 million people don't need to eat and they get to starve to death. In the same time period, slightly less than that die from lack of medical care the market decides they don't need. And that's just contemporary capitalism. Hundreds of millions starved in famines, and starving people got to watch as the food they themselves harvested was shipped to markets that would pay more for it. Millions were enslaved, and cultures, races and communities were wiped off the faces of continents in the name of profit.
  - msuniverse2026 9mo ago
    Yeah and the last century of capitalism created such a boom of food that it increased the population of the world by like 5 billion people
    - simondotau 9mo ago
      And created such a boom of medicine that one can assert that the poorest among us should be entitled to it, and not have that assertion dismissed for being literally impossible.
    - heavyset_go 9mo ago
      If only the market didn't decide that hundreds of millions of those people don't need to eat

slashdave 9mo ago

You had the opportunity to blame one person or an entire country. Which did you choose?

epistasis 9mo ago
There's both collective blame for the US, and also individual blame for the idiocy of Musk. No choice necessary.
onraglanroad 9mo ago
The country that chose the one person?