5 ms·

Considering how much money Nvidia has, it might as well buy the whole company and bring Intel back from the brink.

epolanski 10mo ago
Unlikely to pass anti trust, they failed already acquiring ARM back in time. Edit: I see a lot of confusion on the topic. The anti trust does not need to be from US to be essentially binding, UK, EU, etc have also a de facto veto on mergers of global companies, even if those are US based, this is especially true in global sectors like semiconductors where everybody depends on everybody else from patents to machinery.
- asveikau 10mo ago
  The current administration would let them do it.
  - deleted 10mo ago
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- nerdsniper 10mo ago
  It would kind of match AMD’s acquisition of ATI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies
  - scrlk 10mo ago
    What I find somewhat humorous: AMD originally wanted to acquire Nvidia, but walked away when Jensen apparently insisted on becoming the CEO of the merged company. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/insider-says-nvidia-almost-sold-half-of-itself-to-amd-but-jensen-huang-wanted-to-be-ceo-of-the-merged-company https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/insider-says... I wonder how AMD would have fared against Intel post-Conroe if Jensen was CEO. They were behind but still competitive until the Bulldozer flop, only recovering with Zen (and even then it took a few generations for Zen to mature).
    - overfeed 10mo ago
      > only recovering with Zen (and even then it took a few generations for Zen to mature). Zen was a beast from day one. Zen 1 more or less matched Intel on single-core perf and outmatched it on multicore. Zen 1 blew Intel out of water on perf/$, so much so that the morning after booting up my Zen 1 computer, I bought as many AMD shares as I could afford.
      - kimixa 10mo ago
        Zen1 was further behind in ST perf than Intel is today in it's desktop offerings. They really exploited their strength in MT and price, and showed that the market was already chafing under Intel's reluctance to go beyond 4 cores on their consumer line, presumably to avoid stepping on the toes of HEDT. But that just caused the competition to pretty much invalidate that entire line instead. And I don't really see the situation being that obviously different if it was Nvidia who they merged with and Jensen was CEO. The big issue was simply that AMD didn't have the cash at hand to both pay for ATI and maintain investment in R&D, at least without their next few products completely dominating the competition. I don't see a different CEO changing that. Unless Jensen was willing to value Nvidia significantly less than ATI at the time.
        overfeed 10mo ago
        > And I don't really see the situation being that obviously different if it was Nvidia who they merged with and Jensen was CEO. Hindsight is 20/20. I suspect Zen chiplet success was a result of AMD's deliberate strategy of design partnership with other companies (XBox, PlayStation) and re-using IP[1]. Jensen might not have done the same road on partnerships, or may have chosen the Arm (Tegra) over doubling down on x86 1. There's an informative interview with Lisa Hsu from 2 years ago that lays out the strategy. It's not a big leap to imagine Infinity Fabric eas designed to increase design flexibility across disparate workloads. The impression I got from the multistage Apple-Nvida fallout is that Nvidia probably doesn't have a culture of accepting notes on it's products.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  Different country (UK vs US) + different administration might change the results. Who said you can't just try the same thing over and over again until it works?
- allie1 10mo ago
  I think they'd allow it so they can build a US based foundry behemoth
- briffle 10mo ago
  They could just license all the IP, and hire away all the Engineers and executives... :)
  - Dr_Birdbrain 10mo ago
    Maybe all the engineers, but not the executives who created this problem to begin with
  - clhodapp 10mo ago
    I don't think that's allowed under the terms of the x86/x86_64 cross-license deal with AMD. That's why, for example, any meaningful collaboration between Intel and Nvidia under this partnership has to be released in the form of an Intel product using Nvidia tech, rather than an Nvidia product using Intel tech.
  - themafia 10mo ago
    We could just force them into a RAND licensing regime and let the market solve the problem.
- deaddodo 10mo ago
  "De facto" is the keyword there. Only the nation of origin has any say on company management and infrastructure in a de jure manner. The only power non-origin nations/entities have is via leveraging their ability to do business in the region and/or their local holdings.
  - guerrilla 10mo ago
    > The only power non-origin nations/entities have is via leveraging their ability to do business in the region and/or their local holdings. Which is absolutely enormous, so this distinction is splitting hairs.
    - deaddodo 10mo ago
      Depends on the area/region. But not really. But believe what you like.
Workaccount2 10mo ago
The problems plaguing Intel are fundamental problems that money cannot easily solve, if at all. Intel needs expertise that only a few hundred people on Earth have, and most of them are in Taiwan, already working for someone else. You don't just buy an EUV and start printing, you buy an EUV and give it to a wizard to use as a wand. Intel needs wizards.
- ricardonunez 10mo ago
  How one become a wizard like that?
  - fooker 10mo ago
    Realistically, identify the next technology that will need such wizards and get into a PhD program to research that technology.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Workaccount2 10mo ago
    Get a PhD in some kind of esoteric field like chemical kinetics and then spend a decade learning about oxide surface conditioning under someone who spent their life working on it. None of this stuff is published (externally) and there are no discussion forums or stack overflows to help you either. You need to get through academia, prove yourself, and then you can start working on a chance to get access to the trade secrets that make it possible. After all that you will be placed as a researcher on a handful of steps in the multi-thousand step process of making SOTA wafers. And probably not make crazy money, but at this point, you're not in it for the money anyway.
    - octoberfranklin 10mo ago
      > None of this stuff is published (externally) It's important to note that it wasn't always like this. Up until the mid-90s this stuff was all published in the open literature fairly quickly. There has been a steady culture shift towards ultrasecrecy since then.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
didntknowyou 10mo ago
it prob would if there was some circular deals intel could provide to inflate the ecobubble

Unlikely to pass anti trust, they failed already acquiring ARM back in time. Edit: I see a lot of confusion on the topic. The anti trust does not need to be from US to be essentially binding, UK, EU, etc have also a de facto veto on mergers of global companies, even if those are US based, this is especially true in global sectors like semiconductors where everybody depends on everybody else from patents to machinery.

asveikau 10mo ago
The current administration would let them do it.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
nerdsniper 10mo ago
It would kind of match AMD’s acquisition of ATI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies
- scrlk 10mo ago
  What I find somewhat humorous: AMD originally wanted to acquire Nvidia, but walked away when Jensen apparently insisted on becoming the CEO of the merged company. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/insider-says-nvidia-almost-sold-half-of-itself-to-amd-but-jensen-huang-wanted-to-be-ceo-of-the-merged-company https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/insider-says... I wonder how AMD would have fared against Intel post-Conroe if Jensen was CEO. They were behind but still competitive until the Bulldozer flop, only recovering with Zen (and even then it took a few generations for Zen to mature).
  - overfeed 10mo ago
    > only recovering with Zen (and even then it took a few generations for Zen to mature). Zen was a beast from day one. Zen 1 more or less matched Intel on single-core perf and outmatched it on multicore. Zen 1 blew Intel out of water on perf/$, so much so that the morning after booting up my Zen 1 computer, I bought as many AMD shares as I could afford.
    - kimixa 10mo ago
      Zen1 was further behind in ST perf than Intel is today in it's desktop offerings. They really exploited their strength in MT and price, and showed that the market was already chafing under Intel's reluctance to go beyond 4 cores on their consumer line, presumably to avoid stepping on the toes of HEDT. But that just caused the competition to pretty much invalidate that entire line instead. And I don't really see the situation being that obviously different if it was Nvidia who they merged with and Jensen was CEO. The big issue was simply that AMD didn't have the cash at hand to both pay for ATI and maintain investment in R&D, at least without their next few products completely dominating the competition. I don't see a different CEO changing that. Unless Jensen was willing to value Nvidia significantly less than ATI at the time.
      - overfeed 10mo ago
        > And I don't really see the situation being that obviously different if it was Nvidia who they merged with and Jensen was CEO. Hindsight is 20/20. I suspect Zen chiplet success was a result of AMD's deliberate strategy of design partnership with other companies (XBox, PlayStation) and re-using IP[1]. Jensen might not have done the same road on partnerships, or may have chosen the Arm (Tegra) over doubling down on x86 1. There's an informative interview with Lisa Hsu from 2 years ago that lays out the strategy. It's not a big leap to imagine Infinity Fabric eas designed to increase design flexibility across disparate workloads. The impression I got from the multistage Apple-Nvida fallout is that Nvidia probably doesn't have a culture of accepting notes on it's products.
embedding-shape 10mo ago
Different country (UK vs US) + different administration might change the results. Who said you can't just try the same thing over and over again until it works?
allie1 10mo ago
I think they'd allow it so they can build a US based foundry behemoth
briffle 10mo ago
They could just license all the IP, and hire away all the Engineers and executives... :)
- Dr_Birdbrain 10mo ago
  Maybe all the engineers, but not the executives who created this problem to begin with
- clhodapp 10mo ago
  I don't think that's allowed under the terms of the x86/x86_64 cross-license deal with AMD. That's why, for example, any meaningful collaboration between Intel and Nvidia under this partnership has to be released in the form of an Intel product using Nvidia tech, rather than an Nvidia product using Intel tech.
- themafia 10mo ago
  We could just force them into a RAND licensing regime and let the market solve the problem.
deaddodo 10mo ago
"De facto" is the keyword there. Only the nation of origin has any say on company management and infrastructure in a de jure manner. The only power non-origin nations/entities have is via leveraging their ability to do business in the region and/or their local holdings.
- guerrilla 10mo ago
  > The only power non-origin nations/entities have is via leveraging their ability to do business in the region and/or their local holdings. Which is absolutely enormous, so this distinction is splitting hairs.
  - deaddodo 10mo ago
    Depends on the area/region. But not really. But believe what you like.

Workaccount2 10mo ago

The problems plaguing Intel are fundamental problems that money cannot easily solve, if at all. Intel needs expertise that only a few hundred people on Earth have, and most of them are in Taiwan, already working for someone else. You don't just buy an EUV and start printing, you buy an EUV and give it to a wizard to use as a wand. Intel needs wizards.

ricardonunez 10mo ago
How one become a wizard like that?
- fooker 10mo ago
  Realistically, identify the next technology that will need such wizards and get into a PhD program to research that technology.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- Workaccount2 10mo ago
  Get a PhD in some kind of esoteric field like chemical kinetics and then spend a decade learning about oxide surface conditioning under someone who spent their life working on it. None of this stuff is published (externally) and there are no discussion forums or stack overflows to help you either. You need to get through academia, prove yourself, and then you can start working on a chance to get access to the trade secrets that make it possible. After all that you will be placed as a researcher on a handful of steps in the multi-thousand step process of making SOTA wafers. And probably not make crazy money, but at this point, you're not in it for the money anyway.
  - octoberfranklin 10mo ago
    > None of this stuff is published (externally) It's important to note that it wasn't always like this. Up until the mid-90s this stuff was all published in the open literature fairly quickly. There has been a steady culture shift towards ultrasecrecy since then.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

didntknowyou 10mo ago

it prob would if there was some circular deals intel could provide to inflate the ecobubble