4 ms·

But why? What's wrong with Bluetooth?

delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
Worse quality, latency, potential to lose one (or both) earbuds, having to faff with batteries and charging and cases (and charging the charging case) when I can just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears. The knotting is a small price to pay for the improved quality and convenience in every other way. What's wrong with analogue audio?
- anonymars 10mo ago
  Something I read recently which I think is interesting food for thought: Did ditching the headphone jack increase the number of people in public who just play their music / talk on speakerphone, because now the alternative is much more complex and expensive compared to simple 3.5mm wired headset? Before proclaiming that Bluetooth is in fact simple and cheap, consider how your situation may differ from that of the perpetrators
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 10mo ago
    My own memory and current experience on this point is that it used to be far more common than it is today. I remembered there was a South Park episode where Cartman was being a stereotypical self-absorbed person walking around with their phone on speaker. I looked it up, and that episode came out in 2013. At the time, most phones on the market had a 3.5mm jack. Yet people not using headphones/headsets was an experience common enough to be turned into a joke in the show. I don't think there's much correlation between 3.5mm jack availability and using a phone's speaker output in public. "Simple" as you've used it is open to interpretation. I personally held on to wired headsets longer than most of my friends and family. You know what I don't miss, now that I've preferred wireless for a few years? Untangling the cable. Accidentally catching the cable on something and having an earbud ripped out. Picking lint out of the jack. Staying conscious of the length and positioning of the cable in the context of my own movements. Other than the BT connection process, which is only complicated if you're fortunate enough to own multiple devices and headphones/sets to connect to them, wireless can be a lot "simpler" in actual usage.
    - anonymars 10mo ago
      I appreciate the counterpoint. The Cartman example is a good one. Also it's probably difficult to factor out the seemingly broken post-Covid social norms One point I'll make is simplicity comes in many forms. Wired headphones can be dirt-cheap, they don't run out of battery, and I don't think they're as prone to getting lost
      - sjsdaiuasgdia 9mo ago
        Cheaper yes, but the entry level for BT is still pretty accessible. Using Google Shopping, the lowest priced match for "wired earbuds" is $1.47. The lowest priced match for "bluetooth earbuds" is $2.46. In both cases, you hit a breakpoint of "this looks like it might possibly work for more than a few seconds" around $10. The battery point is valid. Funnily enough, the last pair of earbuds I lost was a wired one. Myself, most of my headsets are over-ear, so they're a bit large to be easily lost. The form factor likely determines the loss potential more than the presence/lack of a wire.
- compass_copium 10mo ago
  Shouldn't it be the same thing? You either have the DAC on your phone convert the digital music file to an analog signal and send it over the aux cord to the speakers in the headphones, or have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right? It's not like you're plugging your headphones into a record player.
  - delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
    > have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right This is not how Bluetooth wireless audio works. PCM audio is re-encoded on-device into any one of a few Bluetooth-capable codecs that is then streamed to the client device. This is a primary cause of latency.
    - compass_copium 10mo ago
      Interesting, thanks
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
- ianburrell 10mo ago
  LE Audio should fix the quality and latency problems. The latency is significantly lower and the bandwidth is twice Classic Bluetooth. There are new default codecs that are better, and there should be enough bandwidth for lossless. The other nice thing is enough bandwidth for bidirectional streams instead of low quality audio when use microphone. The current problem is that LE Audio implementations are new with lots of headphones having them as beta.
- Lvl999Noob 10mo ago
  My 2c. The risk of losing one (or both) earbud is a real one. My ears don't tend to keep snug grip on the earbuds so they tend to get loose after I walk a little. With earbuds, this might just be my own singular piece but, there is also the chance that only one of the two would connect to your phone. On the other hand, the cables get tangled together. I can't walk around with them because the cable gets stuck in the swing of my arms. Connecting them to the phone after a call had already started was a piece of cake though. With bluetooth, I never have my earbuds on when I actually need them and it's too much of a pain to take them out of my bag and connect them. Whenever it is time to replace my current earbuds, I am gonna go for a neckband instead. It has basically the best of both, imo (I am not that sensitive to audio quality mostly) and the downsides aren't large enough (I'll think of the weight as a neck workout).
  - raw_anon_1111 10mo ago
    Then don’t buy headphones like that. I have AirPods Pro. But I also have a pair of $50 Beat Flex that if they fall out of my ear they just go around my neck. I use them when I travel. I bought a pair of double flange doohickies to replace the standard ones.
- worldsavior 9mo ago
  > What's wrong with analogue audio? That you need a cable for it? Most people don't need latency, and I don't really have any latency issues. I watch videos with Bluetooth headphones and they're all synchronized perfectly. With Bluetooth I can also "just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears."
Krssst 10mo ago
In my experience, wired earphones/headphones are better for latency in rythm games.
pxx 10mo ago
latency is absolute killer. then there's also the fact that splitting the output is difficult, pairing (especially multi-pairing) is finicky but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  > "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter" I want to charge and listen to music at the same time.
  - tzs 10mo ago
    You can get adapters that support charging. An example is linked below. Note: I have not tried this. It is simply offered as an example to show they are available. https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-Compatible/dp/B09JZS3645?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-...
    - progval 10mo ago
      Doesn't any such cable/adapter violate the USB-C spec? https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_dont_usbc_extension_cables_work/j7svggo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_d...
      - Marsymars 10mo ago
        Depends how it's implemented. USB-C extension cables aren't allowed, but pass-through charging is allowed. I suspect a $7 cable from a Chinese amazon seller is not spec-compliant, but e.g. Belkin sells a spec-compliant "3.5mm Audio + USB-C Charge Adapter".
    - citrusybread 10mo ago
      >Note: I have not tried this. Nice. They don't work on Pixels if they don't have a DAC, because Google in its infinite wisdom decided not to include one on the Pixel series. And cables like these violate the USB spec. Again: what was the harm in including a 3.5mm jack?
ryanmcbride 10mo ago
The way its bandwidth is too low to broadcast and receive at high quality at the same time meaning everyone calling into the zoom call with their fancy airpods sound like they're calling from the other side of the moon while my 5$ plug-in earbuds sound like a damn recording studio in comparison.
ekianjo 10mo ago
What wrong with a lossy signal?
JohnFen 10mo ago
I've never had good luck with bluetooth for listening to music. Too many dropouts and disconnects.

Worse quality, latency, potential to lose one (or both) earbuds, having to faff with batteries and charging and cases (and charging the charging case) when I can just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears. The knotting is a small price to pay for the improved quality and convenience in every other way. What's wrong with analogue audio?

anonymars 10mo ago
Something I read recently which I think is interesting food for thought: Did ditching the headphone jack increase the number of people in public who just play their music / talk on speakerphone, because now the alternative is much more complex and expensive compared to simple 3.5mm wired headset? Before proclaiming that Bluetooth is in fact simple and cheap, consider how your situation may differ from that of the perpetrators
- sjsdaiuasgdia 10mo ago
  My own memory and current experience on this point is that it used to be far more common than it is today. I remembered there was a South Park episode where Cartman was being a stereotypical self-absorbed person walking around with their phone on speaker. I looked it up, and that episode came out in 2013. At the time, most phones on the market had a 3.5mm jack. Yet people not using headphones/headsets was an experience common enough to be turned into a joke in the show. I don't think there's much correlation between 3.5mm jack availability and using a phone's speaker output in public. "Simple" as you've used it is open to interpretation. I personally held on to wired headsets longer than most of my friends and family. You know what I don't miss, now that I've preferred wireless for a few years? Untangling the cable. Accidentally catching the cable on something and having an earbud ripped out. Picking lint out of the jack. Staying conscious of the length and positioning of the cable in the context of my own movements. Other than the BT connection process, which is only complicated if you're fortunate enough to own multiple devices and headphones/sets to connect to them, wireless can be a lot "simpler" in actual usage.
  - anonymars 10mo ago
    I appreciate the counterpoint. The Cartman example is a good one. Also it's probably difficult to factor out the seemingly broken post-Covid social norms One point I'll make is simplicity comes in many forms. Wired headphones can be dirt-cheap, they don't run out of battery, and I don't think they're as prone to getting lost
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 9mo ago
      Cheaper yes, but the entry level for BT is still pretty accessible. Using Google Shopping, the lowest priced match for "wired earbuds" is $1.47. The lowest priced match for "bluetooth earbuds" is $2.46. In both cases, you hit a breakpoint of "this looks like it might possibly work for more than a few seconds" around $10. The battery point is valid. Funnily enough, the last pair of earbuds I lost was a wired one. Myself, most of my headsets are over-ear, so they're a bit large to be easily lost. The form factor likely determines the loss potential more than the presence/lack of a wire.
compass_copium 10mo ago
Shouldn't it be the same thing? You either have the DAC on your phone convert the digital music file to an analog signal and send it over the aux cord to the speakers in the headphones, or have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right? It's not like you're plugging your headphones into a record player.
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  > have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right This is not how Bluetooth wireless audio works. PCM audio is re-encoded on-device into any one of a few Bluetooth-capable codecs that is then streamed to the client device. This is a primary cause of latency.
  - compass_copium 10mo ago
    Interesting, thanks
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
ianburrell 10mo ago
LE Audio should fix the quality and latency problems. The latency is significantly lower and the bandwidth is twice Classic Bluetooth. There are new default codecs that are better, and there should be enough bandwidth for lossless. The other nice thing is enough bandwidth for bidirectional streams instead of low quality audio when use microphone. The current problem is that LE Audio implementations are new with lots of headphones having them as beta.
Lvl999Noob 10mo ago
My 2c. The risk of losing one (or both) earbud is a real one. My ears don't tend to keep snug grip on the earbuds so they tend to get loose after I walk a little. With earbuds, this might just be my own singular piece but, there is also the chance that only one of the two would connect to your phone. On the other hand, the cables get tangled together. I can't walk around with them because the cable gets stuck in the swing of my arms. Connecting them to the phone after a call had already started was a piece of cake though. With bluetooth, I never have my earbuds on when I actually need them and it's too much of a pain to take them out of my bag and connect them. Whenever it is time to replace my current earbuds, I am gonna go for a neckband instead. It has basically the best of both, imo (I am not that sensitive to audio quality mostly) and the downsides aren't large enough (I'll think of the weight as a neck workout).
- raw_anon_1111 10mo ago
  Then don’t buy headphones like that. I have AirPods Pro. But I also have a pair of $50 Beat Flex that if they fall out of my ear they just go around my neck. I use them when I travel. I bought a pair of double flange doohickies to replace the standard ones.
worldsavior 9mo ago
> What's wrong with analogue audio? That you need a cable for it? Most people don't need latency, and I don't really have any latency issues. I watch videos with Bluetooth headphones and they're all synchronized perfectly. With Bluetooth I can also "just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears."

Krssst 10mo ago

In my experience, wired earphones/headphones are better for latency in rythm games.

pxx 10mo ago

latency is absolute killer. then there's also the fact that splitting the output is difficult, pairing (especially multi-pairing) is finicky but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"

delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
> "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter" I want to charge and listen to music at the same time.
- tzs 10mo ago
  You can get adapters that support charging. An example is linked below. Note: I have not tried this. It is simply offered as an example to show they are available. https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-Compatible/dp/B09JZS3645?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-...
  - progval 10mo ago
    Doesn't any such cable/adapter violate the USB-C spec? https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_dont_usbc_extension_cables_work/j7svggo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_d...
    - Marsymars 10mo ago
      Depends how it's implemented. USB-C extension cables aren't allowed, but pass-through charging is allowed. I suspect a $7 cable from a Chinese amazon seller is not spec-compliant, but e.g. Belkin sells a spec-compliant "3.5mm Audio + USB-C Charge Adapter".
  - citrusybread 10mo ago
    >Note: I have not tried this. Nice. They don't work on Pixels if they don't have a DAC, because Google in its infinite wisdom decided not to include one on the Pixel series. And cables like these violate the USB spec. Again: what was the harm in including a 3.5mm jack?

ryanmcbride 10mo ago

The way its bandwidth is too low to broadcast and receive at high quality at the same time meaning everyone calling into the zoom call with their fancy airpods sound like they're calling from the other side of the moon while my 5$ plug-in earbuds sound like a damn recording studio in comparison.

ekianjo 10mo ago

What wrong with a lossy signal?

JohnFen 10mo ago

I've never had good luck with bluetooth for listening to music. Too many dropouts and disconnects.