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> We gave up the headphone jack. We gave up the microSD card. Some people might have given it up. I personally own a Sony Xperia phone, and intend to buy anoth

> We gave up the headphone jack. We gave up the microSD card. Some people might have given it up. I personally own a Sony Xperia phone, and intend to buy another Xperia next year, which will almost certainly still have both. In fact Sony is the one manufacturer that returned to a headphone jack after having removed it for a while. It might be more expensive than the competition, but this is my voting with my wallet.

worldsavior 10mo ago
But why? What's wrong with Bluetooth?
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  Worse quality, latency, potential to lose one (or both) earbuds, having to faff with batteries and charging and cases (and charging the charging case) when I can just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears. The knotting is a small price to pay for the improved quality and convenience in every other way. What's wrong with analogue audio?
  - anonymars 10mo ago
    Something I read recently which I think is interesting food for thought: Did ditching the headphone jack increase the number of people in public who just play their music / talk on speakerphone, because now the alternative is much more complex and expensive compared to simple 3.5mm wired headset? Before proclaiming that Bluetooth is in fact simple and cheap, consider how your situation may differ from that of the perpetrators
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 10mo ago
      My own memory and current experience on this point is that it used to be far more common than it is today. I remembered there was a South Park episode where Cartman was being a stereotypical self-absorbed person walking around with their phone on speaker. I looked it up, and that episode came out in 2013. At the time, most phones on the market had a 3.5mm jack. Yet people not using headphones/headsets was an experience common enough to be turned into a joke in the show. I don't think there's much correlation between 3.5mm jack availability and using a phone's speaker output in public. "Simple" as you've used it is open to interpretation. I personally held on to wired headsets longer than most of my friends and family. You know what I don't miss, now that I've preferred wireless for a few years? Untangling the cable. Accidentally catching the cable on something and having an earbud ripped out. Picking lint out of the jack. Staying conscious of the length and positioning of the cable in the context of my own movements. Other than the BT connection process, which is only complicated if you're fortunate enough to own multiple devices and headphones/sets to connect to them, wireless can be a lot "simpler" in actual usage.
      - anonymars 10mo ago
        I appreciate the counterpoint. The Cartman example is a good one. Also it's probably difficult to factor out the seemingly broken post-Covid social norms One point I'll make is simplicity comes in many forms. Wired headphones can be dirt-cheap, they don't run out of battery, and I don't think they're as prone to getting lost
        sjsdaiuasgdia 10mo ago
        Cheaper yes, but the entry level for BT is still pretty accessible. Using Google Shopping, the lowest priced match for "wired earbuds" is $1.47. The lowest priced match for "bluetooth earbuds" is $2.46. In both cases, you hit a breakpoint of "this looks like it might possibly work for more than a few seconds" around $10. The battery point is valid. Funnily enough, the last pair of earbuds I lost was a wired one. Myself, most of my headsets are over-ear, so they're a bit large to be easily lost. The form factor likely determines the loss potential more than the presence/lack of a wire.
  - compass_copium 10mo ago
    Shouldn't it be the same thing? You either have the DAC on your phone convert the digital music file to an analog signal and send it over the aux cord to the speakers in the headphones, or have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right? It's not like you're plugging your headphones into a record player.
    - delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
      > have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right This is not how Bluetooth wireless audio works. PCM audio is re-encoded on-device into any one of a few Bluetooth-capable codecs that is then streamed to the client device. This is a primary cause of latency.
      - compass_copium 10mo ago
        Interesting, thanks
      - deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
  - ianburrell 10mo ago
    LE Audio should fix the quality and latency problems. The latency is significantly lower and the bandwidth is twice Classic Bluetooth. There are new default codecs that are better, and there should be enough bandwidth for lossless. The other nice thing is enough bandwidth for bidirectional streams instead of low quality audio when use microphone. The current problem is that LE Audio implementations are new with lots of headphones having them as beta.
  - Lvl999Noob 10mo ago
    My 2c. The risk of losing one (or both) earbud is a real one. My ears don't tend to keep snug grip on the earbuds so they tend to get loose after I walk a little. With earbuds, this might just be my own singular piece but, there is also the chance that only one of the two would connect to your phone. On the other hand, the cables get tangled together. I can't walk around with them because the cable gets stuck in the swing of my arms. Connecting them to the phone after a call had already started was a piece of cake though. With bluetooth, I never have my earbuds on when I actually need them and it's too much of a pain to take them out of my bag and connect them. Whenever it is time to replace my current earbuds, I am gonna go for a neckband instead. It has basically the best of both, imo (I am not that sensitive to audio quality mostly) and the downsides aren't large enough (I'll think of the weight as a neck workout).
    - raw_anon_1111 10mo ago
      Then don’t buy headphones like that. I have AirPods Pro. But I also have a pair of $50 Beat Flex that if they fall out of my ear they just go around my neck. I use them when I travel. I bought a pair of double flange doohickies to replace the standard ones.
  - worldsavior 10mo ago
    > What's wrong with analogue audio? That you need a cable for it? Most people don't need latency, and I don't really have any latency issues. I watch videos with Bluetooth headphones and they're all synchronized perfectly. With Bluetooth I can also "just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears."
- Krssst 10mo ago
  In my experience, wired earphones/headphones are better for latency in rythm games.
- pxx 10mo ago
  latency is absolute killer. then there's also the fact that splitting the output is difficult, pairing (especially multi-pairing) is finicky but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"
  - delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
    > "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter" I want to charge and listen to music at the same time.
    - tzs 10mo ago
      You can get adapters that support charging. An example is linked below. Note: I have not tried this. It is simply offered as an example to show they are available. https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-Compatible/dp/B09JZS3645?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-...
      - progval 10mo ago
        Doesn't any such cable/adapter violate the USB-C spec? https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_dont_usbc_extension_cables_work/j7svggo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_d...
        Marsymars 10mo ago
        Depends how it's implemented. USB-C extension cables aren't allowed, but pass-through charging is allowed. I suspect a $7 cable from a Chinese amazon seller is not spec-compliant, but e.g. Belkin sells a spec-compliant "3.5mm Audio + USB-C Charge Adapter".
      - citrusybread 10mo ago
        >Note: I have not tried this. Nice. They don't work on Pixels if they don't have a DAC, because Google in its infinite wisdom decided not to include one on the Pixel series. And cables like these violate the USB spec. Again: what was the harm in including a 3.5mm jack?
- ryanmcbride 10mo ago
  The way its bandwidth is too low to broadcast and receive at high quality at the same time meaning everyone calling into the zoom call with their fancy airpods sound like they're calling from the other side of the moon while my 5$ plug-in earbuds sound like a damn recording studio in comparison.
- ekianjo 10mo ago
  What wrong with a lossy signal?
- JohnFen 10mo ago
  I've never had good luck with bluetooth for listening to music. Too many dropouts and disconnects.
backwardsponcho 10mo ago
TIL that the Xperia line is still alive and kicking. Sweet phones!
- Elfener 10mo ago
  Unforunately they're "downscaling" their operations in Europe, so I guess they're having trouble competing with other phones: https://www.gsmarena.com/is_sony_pulling_its_smartphone_business_away_from_europe-news-68612.php https://www.gsmarena.com/is_sony_pulling_its_smartphone_busi...
  - Zak 10mo ago
    They've always had uncompetitive pricing. I'm not surprised sales are low.
    - wolvoleo 10mo ago
      Yes and their update policy really sucked compared to the competition while their price was the same or even higher. They've only fixed that recently but it was too late. This was the main reason I never got one.
raffael_de 10mo ago
what is it that keeps you loyal to xperia?
- raffael_de 10mo ago
  (Why would people downvote this utterly harmless question? I don't get it.)
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  Nothing. But I want the SD card, dual sim plus eSIM, a headphone jack, a rectangular screen with a decent aspect ratio ideal for wide-format films and scrolling. I will fully concede that Sony's software quality has taken a hit in recent years; they used to be much better in 2016 or so.
  - raffael_de 10mo ago
    have a look at LOS. xperias are well supported.
Elfener 10mo ago
Most phones that cost less than ~300 USD still have a headphone jack and microSD slot. I've never understood spending more than that on a phone anyway, you can't exactly use all that processing power on a phone operating system. Unfortunately some of the bad features from expensive phones have been moving down to the cheaper ones, like the destroyed screen that's missing its corners and has a hole for the camera in it for some reason.
- hakfoo 10mo ago
  I just bought a newer phone and was surprised to see even the ~$200 Samsungs were lacking a headphone jack. That threw them right out of contention, so I ended up getting a 2024-model Motorola (the 2025s were $50 more and reviews said they offered no meaningful performance boost).
  - lisbbb 10mo ago
    I get it, but the quality of headphones with cords has gotten so bad that the male jacks wouldn't last more than a few months. My son has gone through an untold number of corded headphones because his school iPad is too locked down to use bluetooth ones.
    - toast0 10mo ago
      You can spend a little more and get headphones with a replacable cord, and replace the cords if they get broken. Or maybe take the time to solder new connectors onto broken cords.
- tayo42 10mo ago
  Are the cameras as good?
  - dredmorbius 10mo ago
    If you're so concerned about camera quality ... buy a dedicated camera. A 32 MP+ point-and-shoot starts at about $40, though goes up from there (to several thousand dollars for top models). As a bonus, it has an expected life far exceeding that of a smartphone.
brewtide 10mo ago
I've rocked pixels for a good while now, but the Xperia lineup has always been something I've really debated. My largest concern is camera quality: obviously it is Sony, but if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on their camera 'stack' a bit (esp. in relation to pixel phones if you have first hand experience...).
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  I own an Xperia 5iii (so about four-and-a-half years old now), and I also own a Pixel 10. The Pixel 10's camera is unequivocally better. The JPEG outputs are processed, 'Instagram-ready'. The output from the Sony camera even in JPEG mode is considerably more muted, neutral, and has less contrast. Note that this is not representative of newer Xperias' camera quality; I've heard they have improved considerably. I'm not too concerned because I hardly use my phone to take photos; I have a Nikon mirrorless for that.
Permik 10mo ago
Do note that unfortunately any future devices by Sony are just phones by other manufacturers that are just Sony branded. Sony stopped their first party device manufacturing, so your mileage of the hardware might be wildly different in the future.
bxparks 10mo ago
Same. I buy Motorola phones because they have 3.5mm headphone jacks, real SIM cards, and microSD cards.
vovavili 10mo ago
>It might be more expensive than the competition By a _substantial_ margin, because the best bang-for-your-buck strategy with smartphones for a long time has been to buy used or refurbished popular flagships for the last one or two years. As much as I like what Xperias are doing with a headphone jack and an SD card slot, the used market for them is almost non-existent. Even if you somehow manage to get a good deal, it will be even more difficult to find a good case and accessories like a reliable magnetic wallet, the market is just isn't there. I myself have settled on using a Pixel with a headphone jack DAC dongle and an external hard drive.
- squigz 10mo ago
  Those magnetic wallets seem like a terrible idea.
  - vovavili 10mo ago
    There are some mostly reliable ones out there on the pricier end, but the catch is that they are almost exclusive to flagships. For the extra-cautious, some even have "Find My Device" compatibility baked in.
  - Carrok 10mo ago
    I've used one for years now. No issues. Not sure what you're worried about.
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  > the used market for them is almost non-existent Perhaps, but phones have become appliances. All my friends and family have held on to their smartphones for at least 5 years now.
climb_stealth 10mo ago
Except 4G/5G does not work properly in Australia. :( It is some carrier configuration bullshit or something like that. There may be a way to make it work, but it did not look guaranteed after reading dozens of pages on forums on the topic. I ended up retuning the Sony I tried whilst I could still get a full refund. Phones used to be exciting. Now it is just frustrating because all the good features are gone. Headphone jack, sd card, fingerprint sensor on back, unlockable bootloader.
pjmlp 10mo ago
Same here, no SSD or SIM support, no money from me.

worldsavior 10mo ago

But why? What's wrong with Bluetooth?

delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
Worse quality, latency, potential to lose one (or both) earbuds, having to faff with batteries and charging and cases (and charging the charging case) when I can just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears. The knotting is a small price to pay for the improved quality and convenience in every other way. What's wrong with analogue audio?
- anonymars 10mo ago
  Something I read recently which I think is interesting food for thought: Did ditching the headphone jack increase the number of people in public who just play their music / talk on speakerphone, because now the alternative is much more complex and expensive compared to simple 3.5mm wired headset? Before proclaiming that Bluetooth is in fact simple and cheap, consider how your situation may differ from that of the perpetrators
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 10mo ago
    My own memory and current experience on this point is that it used to be far more common than it is today. I remembered there was a South Park episode where Cartman was being a stereotypical self-absorbed person walking around with their phone on speaker. I looked it up, and that episode came out in 2013. At the time, most phones on the market had a 3.5mm jack. Yet people not using headphones/headsets was an experience common enough to be turned into a joke in the show. I don't think there's much correlation between 3.5mm jack availability and using a phone's speaker output in public. "Simple" as you've used it is open to interpretation. I personally held on to wired headsets longer than most of my friends and family. You know what I don't miss, now that I've preferred wireless for a few years? Untangling the cable. Accidentally catching the cable on something and having an earbud ripped out. Picking lint out of the jack. Staying conscious of the length and positioning of the cable in the context of my own movements. Other than the BT connection process, which is only complicated if you're fortunate enough to own multiple devices and headphones/sets to connect to them, wireless can be a lot "simpler" in actual usage.
    - anonymars 10mo ago
      I appreciate the counterpoint. The Cartman example is a good one. Also it's probably difficult to factor out the seemingly broken post-Covid social norms One point I'll make is simplicity comes in many forms. Wired headphones can be dirt-cheap, they don't run out of battery, and I don't think they're as prone to getting lost
      - sjsdaiuasgdia 10mo ago
        Cheaper yes, but the entry level for BT is still pretty accessible. Using Google Shopping, the lowest priced match for "wired earbuds" is $1.47. The lowest priced match for "bluetooth earbuds" is $2.46. In both cases, you hit a breakpoint of "this looks like it might possibly work for more than a few seconds" around $10. The battery point is valid. Funnily enough, the last pair of earbuds I lost was a wired one. Myself, most of my headsets are over-ear, so they're a bit large to be easily lost. The form factor likely determines the loss potential more than the presence/lack of a wire.
- compass_copium 10mo ago
  Shouldn't it be the same thing? You either have the DAC on your phone convert the digital music file to an analog signal and send it over the aux cord to the speakers in the headphones, or have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right? It's not like you're plugging your headphones into a record player.
  - delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
    > have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right This is not how Bluetooth wireless audio works. PCM audio is re-encoded on-device into any one of a few Bluetooth-capable codecs that is then streamed to the client device. This is a primary cause of latency.
    - compass_copium 10mo ago
      Interesting, thanks
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
- ianburrell 10mo ago
  LE Audio should fix the quality and latency problems. The latency is significantly lower and the bandwidth is twice Classic Bluetooth. There are new default codecs that are better, and there should be enough bandwidth for lossless. The other nice thing is enough bandwidth for bidirectional streams instead of low quality audio when use microphone. The current problem is that LE Audio implementations are new with lots of headphones having them as beta.
- Lvl999Noob 10mo ago
  My 2c. The risk of losing one (or both) earbud is a real one. My ears don't tend to keep snug grip on the earbuds so they tend to get loose after I walk a little. With earbuds, this might just be my own singular piece but, there is also the chance that only one of the two would connect to your phone. On the other hand, the cables get tangled together. I can't walk around with them because the cable gets stuck in the swing of my arms. Connecting them to the phone after a call had already started was a piece of cake though. With bluetooth, I never have my earbuds on when I actually need them and it's too much of a pain to take them out of my bag and connect them. Whenever it is time to replace my current earbuds, I am gonna go for a neckband instead. It has basically the best of both, imo (I am not that sensitive to audio quality mostly) and the downsides aren't large enough (I'll think of the weight as a neck workout).
  - raw_anon_1111 10mo ago
    Then don’t buy headphones like that. I have AirPods Pro. But I also have a pair of $50 Beat Flex that if they fall out of my ear they just go around my neck. I use them when I travel. I bought a pair of double flange doohickies to replace the standard ones.
- worldsavior 10mo ago
  > What's wrong with analogue audio? That you need a cable for it? Most people don't need latency, and I don't really have any latency issues. I watch videos with Bluetooth headphones and they're all synchronized perfectly. With Bluetooth I can also "just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears."
Krssst 10mo ago
In my experience, wired earphones/headphones are better for latency in rythm games.
pxx 10mo ago
latency is absolute killer. then there's also the fact that splitting the output is difficult, pairing (especially multi-pairing) is finicky but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"
- delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
  > "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter" I want to charge and listen to music at the same time.
  - tzs 10mo ago
    You can get adapters that support charging. An example is linked below. Note: I have not tried this. It is simply offered as an example to show they are available. https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-Compatible/dp/B09JZS3645?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-...
    - progval 10mo ago
      Doesn't any such cable/adapter violate the USB-C spec? https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_dont_usbc_extension_cables_work/j7svggo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_d...
      - Marsymars 10mo ago
        Depends how it's implemented. USB-C extension cables aren't allowed, but pass-through charging is allowed. I suspect a $7 cable from a Chinese amazon seller is not spec-compliant, but e.g. Belkin sells a spec-compliant "3.5mm Audio + USB-C Charge Adapter".
    - citrusybread 10mo ago
      >Note: I have not tried this. Nice. They don't work on Pixels if they don't have a DAC, because Google in its infinite wisdom decided not to include one on the Pixel series. And cables like these violate the USB spec. Again: what was the harm in including a 3.5mm jack?
ryanmcbride 10mo ago
The way its bandwidth is too low to broadcast and receive at high quality at the same time meaning everyone calling into the zoom call with their fancy airpods sound like they're calling from the other side of the moon while my 5$ plug-in earbuds sound like a damn recording studio in comparison.
ekianjo 10mo ago
What wrong with a lossy signal?
JohnFen 10mo ago
I've never had good luck with bluetooth for listening to music. Too many dropouts and disconnects.

backwardsponcho 10mo ago

TIL that the Xperia line is still alive and kicking. Sweet phones!

Elfener 10mo ago
Unforunately they're "downscaling" their operations in Europe, so I guess they're having trouble competing with other phones: https://www.gsmarena.com/is_sony_pulling_its_smartphone_business_away_from_europe-news-68612.php https://www.gsmarena.com/is_sony_pulling_its_smartphone_busi...
- Zak 10mo ago
  They've always had uncompetitive pricing. I'm not surprised sales are low.
  - wolvoleo 10mo ago
    Yes and their update policy really sucked compared to the competition while their price was the same or even higher. They've only fixed that recently but it was too late. This was the main reason I never got one.

raffael_de 10mo ago

what is it that keeps you loyal to xperia?

raffael_de 10mo ago
(Why would people downvote this utterly harmless question? I don't get it.)
delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
Nothing. But I want the SD card, dual sim plus eSIM, a headphone jack, a rectangular screen with a decent aspect ratio ideal for wide-format films and scrolling. I will fully concede that Sony's software quality has taken a hit in recent years; they used to be much better in 2016 or so.
- raffael_de 10mo ago
  have a look at LOS. xperias are well supported.

Elfener 10mo ago

Most phones that cost less than ~300 USD still have a headphone jack and microSD slot. I've never understood spending more than that on a phone anyway, you can't exactly use all that processing power on a phone operating system. Unfortunately some of the bad features from expensive phones have been moving down to the cheaper ones, like the destroyed screen that's missing its corners and has a hole for the camera in it for some reason.

hakfoo 10mo ago
I just bought a newer phone and was surprised to see even the ~$200 Samsungs were lacking a headphone jack. That threw them right out of contention, so I ended up getting a 2024-model Motorola (the 2025s were $50 more and reviews said they offered no meaningful performance boost).
- lisbbb 10mo ago
  I get it, but the quality of headphones with cords has gotten so bad that the male jacks wouldn't last more than a few months. My son has gone through an untold number of corded headphones because his school iPad is too locked down to use bluetooth ones.
  - toast0 10mo ago
    You can spend a little more and get headphones with a replacable cord, and replace the cords if they get broken. Or maybe take the time to solder new connectors onto broken cords.
tayo42 10mo ago
Are the cameras as good?
- dredmorbius 10mo ago
  If you're so concerned about camera quality ... buy a dedicated camera. A 32 MP+ point-and-shoot starts at about $40, though goes up from there (to several thousand dollars for top models). As a bonus, it has an expected life far exceeding that of a smartphone.

brewtide 10mo ago

I've rocked pixels for a good while now, but the Xperia lineup has always been something I've really debated. My largest concern is camera quality: obviously it is Sony, but if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on their camera 'stack' a bit (esp. in relation to pixel phones if you have first hand experience...).

delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
I own an Xperia 5iii (so about four-and-a-half years old now), and I also own a Pixel 10. The Pixel 10's camera is unequivocally better. The JPEG outputs are processed, 'Instagram-ready'. The output from the Sony camera even in JPEG mode is considerably more muted, neutral, and has less contrast. Note that this is not representative of newer Xperias' camera quality; I've heard they have improved considerably. I'm not too concerned because I hardly use my phone to take photos; I have a Nikon mirrorless for that.

Permik 10mo ago

Do note that unfortunately any future devices by Sony are just phones by other manufacturers that are just Sony branded. Sony stopped their first party device manufacturing, so your mileage of the hardware might be wildly different in the future.

bxparks 10mo ago

Same. I buy Motorola phones because they have 3.5mm headphone jacks, real SIM cards, and microSD cards.

vovavili 10mo ago

>It might be more expensive than the competition By a _substantial_ margin, because the best bang-for-your-buck strategy with smartphones for a long time has been to buy used or refurbished popular flagships for the last one or two years. As much as I like what Xperias are doing with a headphone jack and an SD card slot, the used market for them is almost non-existent. Even if you somehow manage to get a good deal, it will be even more difficult to find a good case and accessories like a reliable magnetic wallet, the market is just isn't there. I myself have settled on using a Pixel with a headphone jack DAC dongle and an external hard drive.

squigz 10mo ago
Those magnetic wallets seem like a terrible idea.
- vovavili 10mo ago
  There are some mostly reliable ones out there on the pricier end, but the catch is that they are almost exclusive to flagships. For the extra-cautious, some even have "Find My Device" compatibility baked in.
- Carrok 10mo ago
  I've used one for years now. No issues. Not sure what you're worried about.
delta_p_delta_x 10mo ago
> the used market for them is almost non-existent Perhaps, but phones have become appliances. All my friends and family have held on to their smartphones for at least 5 years now.

climb_stealth 10mo ago

Except 4G/5G does not work properly in Australia. :( It is some carrier configuration bullshit or something like that. There may be a way to make it work, but it did not look guaranteed after reading dozens of pages on forums on the topic. I ended up retuning the Sony I tried whilst I could still get a full refund. Phones used to be exciting. Now it is just frustrating because all the good features are gone. Headphone jack, sd card, fingerprint sensor on back, unlockable bootloader.

pjmlp 10mo ago

Same here, no SSD or SIM support, no money from me.