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European Union have been meaningfully created so that the enrolled countries economically depends on each other. It came with a lot of downsides (loss of nation

by pjerem 10mo ago

European Union have been meaningfully created so that the enrolled countries economically depends on each other. It came with a lot of downsides (loss of national sovereignty is one of the biggest), also a lot of benefits (bigger market) and the most important of all of those, it came with the longest peace period of the continent in the human history. It may seems that things are not going in the right direction and I'd agree but we are pretty rich compared to the rest of the world, we are in good health, and we are still not at war against each other like we were in the last thousands years so I'll take that.

mytailorisrich 10mo ago
You don't need to destroy individual countries to achieve peace and prosperity. We had prosperity befote the EC and we can, and did, achieve peace by a mindset shift after two world wars and free trade. There is a big difference between the original EEC and the EU, too. Again these are all a posteriori arguments that are repeated ad nauseam to justify a federal Europe and to manufacture consent.
- pjerem 10mo ago
  I agree that we can't (and will never) know if we could have done it better. But the results are here : we are at peace, and compared to the rest of the world, we are in good health, we live in overall great conditions and we are pretty much free. I'm not saying we don't have to fight to enhance things or to at least keep them like they are. I'm french so I know what it means to protest against basically everything ;) I'm not saying we couldn't have done it better. But it's important to acknowledge what we really have before trying to get better things.
  - mytailorisrich 10mo ago
    What has any of that to do with my comments? > I'm french Me too, so I know that the country entered the EEC without any desire to disappear into a superstate but that's what's happening very insidiously, including because the country has had very weak leadership for decades.

by pjerem 10mo ago

mytailorisrich 10mo ago

You don't need to destroy individual countries to achieve peace and prosperity. We had prosperity befote the EC and we can, and did, achieve peace by a mindset shift after two world wars and free trade. There is a big difference between the original EEC and the EU, too. Again these are all a posteriori arguments that are repeated ad nauseam to justify a federal Europe and to manufacture consent.

pjerem 10mo ago
I agree that we can't (and will never) know if we could have done it better. But the results are here : we are at peace, and compared to the rest of the world, we are in good health, we live in overall great conditions and we are pretty much free. I'm not saying we don't have to fight to enhance things or to at least keep them like they are. I'm french so I know what it means to protest against basically everything ;) I'm not saying we couldn't have done it better. But it's important to acknowledge what we really have before trying to get better things.
- mytailorisrich 10mo ago
  What has any of that to do with my comments? > I'm french Me too, so I know that the country entered the EEC without any desire to disappear into a superstate but that's what's happening very insidiously, including because the country has had very weak leadership for decades.