5 ms·

> Americans don’t like trains They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point o

by mmooss 10mo ago

> Americans don’t like trains They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. > Most Americans don’t want to commute sitting next to strangers. I never hear city residents talk about 'strangers'. Interacting with others is a pleasure of cities, in fact - it's energizing, it builds social trust. We're social animals. I've never gotten on public transit, or walked down a busy sidewalk, and thought about 'strangers'. Most of those people are pretty sociable.

rayiner 10mo ago
> They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. NYC has only 2.5% of the U.S. population and even then it has net domestic outmigration (meaning more people move out every year than move in). The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks.
- woodruffw 10mo ago
  > The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks. I think your numbers are wrong: the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years[1]. We're not even at historic highs; those were before WWI. [1]: https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-city-immigrants/ https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-cit...
  - ordu 10mo ago
    > the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years This statement doesn't contradict the one about international immigrants keeping the city from shrinking. It is easy to imagine how immigrants come to NY, give birth to natural born Americans, who then move out of the city. This process can come to some kind of a dynamic equilibrium with a stable population of foreign born people.
    - rayiner 10mo ago
      Not only that, when an international immigrant to the city later moves out of the city, like my cousin’s family did, that’s also counted as domestic migration.
SoftTalker 10mo ago
Did you hear about the woman in Chicago who was set on fire on a train? Not very sociable. People use the trains in places like Chicago and NYC not simply because they are available but because owning and driving a car in the city center is very expensive and impractical for most people. Anywhere less dense, people prefer to drive their own cars.
- magicalist 10mo ago
  > Did you hear about the woman in Chicago who was set on fire on a train? Not very sociable. Did you hear about the other other lawsuit about people burning to death in their cybertruck? Should we compare horrific deaths per passenger? Per mile traveled?
  - rangestransform 10mo ago
    once autonomy becomes ubiquitous, it'll change the safety equation significantly and hopefully eradicate the safety advantage of public transit entirely
    - mmooss 10mo ago
      Why do you want to "eradicate the safety advantage of public transit"? If you don't like public transit, don't use it.
rangestransform 10mo ago
Some of the people on the subway have eroded social trust by acting antisocially with impunity, a high trust society needs to be beaten into such a diverse and inequal population a la singapore
- mmooss 10mo ago
  I'm not sure what you mean, but the NYC subways - and public transportation I've been on in many cities - work well in terms of social trust. The evidence doesn't fit your theory. Does everything work perfectly all the time? No, not in anything. If you cross the street, maybe someone will drive right into you. But I cross streets without a problem.
  - rangestransform 10mo ago
    You haven’t noticed the glut of egregious red light running recently? Or the Bluetooth speakers and panhandling on the subway?
    - mmooss 10mo ago
      No. I generally like Bluetooth speakers - it's nice to share some music and someone's energy, and I mind panhandling less than all the advertising I see in my web browser. At least the panhandler needs the money and doesn't track me, and usually they're pretty friendly and neighborly. Seriously, what's the big deal? People are looking to confirm all the anti-city hate. Maybe if these people make you uncomfortable, the lack of trust is in the mirror.
      - rangestransform 10mo ago
        In suburbia and places like Tokyo, other people don’t impose their content preferences on me, I choose what I listen to on the train. I dislike ads for the same reason, I get to decide what I want to see or hear. I guess AirPods Pro 3 are closer to giving me that than ever.

by mmooss 10mo ago

rayiner 10mo ago

> They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. NYC has only 2.5% of the U.S. population and even then it has net domestic outmigration (meaning more people move out every year than move in). The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks.

woodruffw 10mo ago
> The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks. I think your numbers are wrong: the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years[1]. We're not even at historic highs; those were before WWI. [1]: https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-city-immigrants/ https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-cit...
- ordu 10mo ago
  > the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years This statement doesn't contradict the one about international immigrants keeping the city from shrinking. It is easy to imagine how immigrants come to NY, give birth to natural born Americans, who then move out of the city. This process can come to some kind of a dynamic equilibrium with a stable population of foreign born people.
  - rayiner 10mo ago
    Not only that, when an international immigrant to the city later moves out of the city, like my cousin’s family did, that’s also counted as domestic migration.

SoftTalker 10mo ago

Did you hear about the woman in Chicago who was set on fire on a train? Not very sociable. People use the trains in places like Chicago and NYC not simply because they are available but because owning and driving a car in the city center is very expensive and impractical for most people. Anywhere less dense, people prefer to drive their own cars.

magicalist 10mo ago
> Did you hear about the woman in Chicago who was set on fire on a train? Not very sociable. Did you hear about the other other lawsuit about people burning to death in their cybertruck? Should we compare horrific deaths per passenger? Per mile traveled?
- rangestransform 10mo ago
  once autonomy becomes ubiquitous, it'll change the safety equation significantly and hopefully eradicate the safety advantage of public transit entirely
  - mmooss 10mo ago
    Why do you want to "eradicate the safety advantage of public transit"? If you don't like public transit, don't use it.

rangestransform 10mo ago

Some of the people on the subway have eroded social trust by acting antisocially with impunity, a high trust society needs to be beaten into such a diverse and inequal population a la singapore

mmooss 10mo ago
I'm not sure what you mean, but the NYC subways - and public transportation I've been on in many cities - work well in terms of social trust. The evidence doesn't fit your theory. Does everything work perfectly all the time? No, not in anything. If you cross the street, maybe someone will drive right into you. But I cross streets without a problem.
- rangestransform 10mo ago
  You haven’t noticed the glut of egregious red light running recently? Or the Bluetooth speakers and panhandling on the subway?
  - mmooss 10mo ago
    No. I generally like Bluetooth speakers - it's nice to share some music and someone's energy, and I mind panhandling less than all the advertising I see in my web browser. At least the panhandler needs the money and doesn't track me, and usually they're pretty friendly and neighborly. Seriously, what's the big deal? People are looking to confirm all the anti-city hate. Maybe if these people make you uncomfortable, the lack of trust is in the mirror.
    - rangestransform 10mo ago
      In suburbia and places like Tokyo, other people don’t impose their content preferences on me, I choose what I listen to on the train. I dislike ads for the same reason, I get to decide what I want to see or hear. I guess AirPods Pro 3 are closer to giving me that than ever.