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Maybe I'm missing something here: the great thing about self-hosting is that you choose if and when you update your back-end software. What's stopping self-host

Maybe I'm missing something here: the great thing about self-hosting is that you choose if and when you update your back-end software. What's stopping self-hosting admins from simply staying on a known good version and forking that if they so desire?

wmf 10mo ago
you choose if and when you update your back-end software That's what we say it's about. But it's really about open source devs being our slaves forever. Get to work, Mattermost! (whip crack)
- underdeserver 10mo ago
  Did you read the Github issue? These guys are paying customers.
  - wmf 10mo ago
    If so that is indeed shitty. I thought they were crippling the free tier.
    - underdeserver 10mo ago
      I was wrong. They were only nerfing the free self-hosted tier. I misread a few comments there.
  - akerl_ 10mo ago
    Where are you seeing that? From what I can tell, the 10k message limit applies to "Mattermost Entry": > Mattermost Entry gives small, forward-leaning teams a free self-hosted Intelligent Mission Environment to get started on improving their mission-critical secure collaborative workflows. Entry has all features of Enterprise Advanced with the following server-wide limitations and omissions: https://docs.mattermost.com/product-overview/editions-and-offerings.html# https://docs.mattermost.com/product-overview/editions-and-of...
    - renewiltord 10mo ago
      What the fuck is this lmao? "a free self-hosted Intelligent Mission Environment to get started on improving their mission-critical secure collaborative workflows". Sounds like some kind of parody of enterprise software.
      - akerl_ 10mo ago
        I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s a free tier.
  - calcifer 10mo ago
    They are not paying customers. From the announcement [1]: > What This Means for Existing Deployments > Paid Customers: No action required—your deployments are unaffected. [1] https://forum.mattermost.com/t/mattermost-v11-changes-in-free-offerings/25126 https://forum.mattermost.com/t/mattermost-v11-changes-in-fre...
  - underdeserver 10mo ago
    Can't edit anymore - I was wrong here. I saw "we're happy to pay for it" and thought they were paying for it. They're not, yet.
    - akerl_ 10mo ago
      Yea, here “we’re happy to pay for it” really means “we’re not happy to pay the price you’re charging, but maybe we’d pay if you fundamentally changed your prices or pricing model.”
figmert 10mo ago
Security updates is what's stopping them often. You also realistically can't fork things unless multiple people do, and they all stay interested in the fork.
- yegle 10mo ago
  You don't have to expose your self-hosted services on the Internet to begin with. 0day bugs do exist even if you diligently apply all security updates.
  - em-bee 10mo ago
    making sure that your system is not exposed to the internet takes effort too. and then you realize you want to share something with friends or family, or access your home server from remote. you also want updates for new features too eventually.
    - the_snooze 10mo ago
      There are different degrees of "exposed to the internet." You don't need to make your self-hosted services fully accessible by anyone from everywhere. VPN, IP whitelists, mTLS, HTTP basic auth, etc. change the calculus of security and feature updates. You can afford to lag a bit behind on updates because you're not running critical enterprise infrastructure at scale.
    - orev 10mo ago
      Pretty much every home router, network firewall, and host-based firewall is set to deny all by default, so the effort is mostly needed to allow exposure to the Internet.
  - fortyseven 10mo ago
    Have the advantage of hosting content on Plex and other media servers that you can play them remotely. I can be on the other side of the Earth and still access my media. This is an extremely common use case.
wrxd 10mo ago
It’s even better than that. You no longer like Plex? Alternatives like Jellyfin are there, you can use them on the same media library
- sshine 10mo ago
  The Plex rug-pull from excellent software to commercial gimmick happened years ago when they removed your ability to search your personal media library. I assumed that they were being forced by the copyright mafia, but they’re perfectly capable of making these decisions on their own.

wmf 10mo ago

you choose if and when you update your back-end software That's what we say it's about. But it's really about open source devs being our slaves forever. Get to work, Mattermost! (whip crack)

underdeserver 10mo ago
Did you read the Github issue? These guys are paying customers.
- wmf 10mo ago
  If so that is indeed shitty. I thought they were crippling the free tier.
  - underdeserver 10mo ago
    I was wrong. They were only nerfing the free self-hosted tier. I misread a few comments there.
- akerl_ 10mo ago
  Where are you seeing that? From what I can tell, the 10k message limit applies to "Mattermost Entry": > Mattermost Entry gives small, forward-leaning teams a free self-hosted Intelligent Mission Environment to get started on improving their mission-critical secure collaborative workflows. Entry has all features of Enterprise Advanced with the following server-wide limitations and omissions: https://docs.mattermost.com/product-overview/editions-and-offerings.html# https://docs.mattermost.com/product-overview/editions-and-of...
  - renewiltord 10mo ago
    What the fuck is this lmao? "a free self-hosted Intelligent Mission Environment to get started on improving their mission-critical secure collaborative workflows". Sounds like some kind of parody of enterprise software.
    - akerl_ 10mo ago
      I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s a free tier.
- calcifer 10mo ago
  They are not paying customers. From the announcement [1]: > What This Means for Existing Deployments > Paid Customers: No action required—your deployments are unaffected. [1] https://forum.mattermost.com/t/mattermost-v11-changes-in-free-offerings/25126 https://forum.mattermost.com/t/mattermost-v11-changes-in-fre...
- underdeserver 10mo ago
  Can't edit anymore - I was wrong here. I saw "we're happy to pay for it" and thought they were paying for it. They're not, yet.
  - akerl_ 10mo ago
    Yea, here “we’re happy to pay for it” really means “we’re not happy to pay the price you’re charging, but maybe we’d pay if you fundamentally changed your prices or pricing model.”

figmert 10mo ago

Security updates is what's stopping them often. You also realistically can't fork things unless multiple people do, and they all stay interested in the fork.

yegle 10mo ago
You don't have to expose your self-hosted services on the Internet to begin with. 0day bugs do exist even if you diligently apply all security updates.
- em-bee 10mo ago
  making sure that your system is not exposed to the internet takes effort too. and then you realize you want to share something with friends or family, or access your home server from remote. you also want updates for new features too eventually.
  - the_snooze 10mo ago
    There are different degrees of "exposed to the internet." You don't need to make your self-hosted services fully accessible by anyone from everywhere. VPN, IP whitelists, mTLS, HTTP basic auth, etc. change the calculus of security and feature updates. You can afford to lag a bit behind on updates because you're not running critical enterprise infrastructure at scale.
  - orev 10mo ago
    Pretty much every home router, network firewall, and host-based firewall is set to deny all by default, so the effort is mostly needed to allow exposure to the Internet.
- fortyseven 10mo ago
  Have the advantage of hosting content on Plex and other media servers that you can play them remotely. I can be on the other side of the Earth and still access my media. This is an extremely common use case.

wrxd 10mo ago

It’s even better than that. You no longer like Plex? Alternatives like Jellyfin are there, you can use them on the same media library

sshine 10mo ago
The Plex rug-pull from excellent software to commercial gimmick happened years ago when they removed your ability to search your personal media library. I assumed that they were being forced by the copyright mafia, but they’re perfectly capable of making these decisions on their own.