4 ms·

Kind of - the art of fortune telling plays a big part in things It's not needed now, but we think that it will be needed in the future It's needed now, but we

Kind of - the art of fortune telling plays a big part in things It's not needed now, but we think that it will be needed in the future It's needed now, but we don't know if we will use it in the future How MUCH will it be needed in the future Will there be a future technology that makes this investment unnecessary, or even obselete before the project ever completes For the latter, a big argument of "No need to invest in commuter trains" argument was "self driving cars are 'just around the corner' and they will make mass transit a quaint thing of the past" was used to deny investment in trains.

rayiner 10mo ago
> For the latter, a big argument of "No need to invest in commuter trains" argument was "self driving cars are 'just around the corner' and they will make mass transit a quaint thing of the past" was used to deny investment in trains. People don’t want to invest in trains because Americans don’t like trains. We have only one real city, and that city’s population consistently has net domestic outmigration. The city’s population is kept stable by a steady supply of international migrants: https://www.cityandstateny.com/media/ckeditor-uploads/2025/03/13/Screenshot%202025-03-13%20at%205.44.32%E2%80%AFPM.png https://www.cityandstateny.com/media/ckeditor-uploads/2025/0.... Most Americans don’t want to commute sitting next to strangers. It’s not complicated.
- awesome_dude 10mo ago
  I'm one of the few dozen people on the internet not in America...
- mmooss 10mo ago
  > Americans don’t like trains They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. > Most Americans don’t want to commute sitting next to strangers. I never hear city residents talk about 'strangers'. Interacting with others is a pleasure of cities, in fact - it's energizing, it builds social trust. We're social animals. I've never gotten on public transit, or walked down a busy sidewalk, and thought about 'strangers'. Most of those people are pretty sociable.
  - rayiner 10mo ago
    > They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. NYC has only 2.5% of the U.S. population and even then it has net domestic outmigration (meaning more people move out every year than move in). The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks.
    - woodruffw 10mo ago
      > The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks. I think your numbers are wrong: the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years[1]. We're not even at historic highs; those were before WWI. [1]: https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-city-immigrants/ https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-cit...
      - ordu 10mo ago
        > the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years This statement doesn't contradict the one about international immigrants keeping the city from shrinking. It is easy to imagine how immigrants come to NY, give birth to natural born Americans, who then move out of the city. This process can come to some kind of a dynamic equilibrium with a stable population of foreign born people.
        rayiner 10mo ago
        Not only that, when an international immigrant to the city later moves out of the city, like my cousin’s family did, that’s also counted as domestic migration.
  - SoftTalker 10mo ago
    Did you hear about the woman in Chicago who was set on fire on a train? Not very sociable. People use the trains in places like Chicago and NYC not simply because they are available but because owning and driving a car in the city center is very expensive and impractical for most people. Anywhere less dense, people prefer to drive their own cars.

rayiner 10mo ago

> For the latter, a big argument of "No need to invest in commuter trains" argument was "self driving cars are 'just around the corner' and they will make mass transit a quaint thing of the past" was used to deny investment in trains. People don’t want to invest in trains because Americans don’t like trains. We have only one real city, and that city’s population consistently has net domestic outmigration. The city’s population is kept stable by a steady supply of international migrants: https://www.cityandstateny.com/media/ckeditor-uploads/2025/03/13/Screenshot%202025-03-13%20at%205.44.32%E2%80%AFPM.png https://www.cityandstateny.com/media/ckeditor-uploads/2025/0.... Most Americans don’t want to commute sitting next to strangers. It’s not complicated.

awesome_dude 10mo ago
I'm one of the few dozen people on the internet not in America...
mmooss 10mo ago
> Americans don’t like trains They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. > Most Americans don’t want to commute sitting next to strangers. I never hear city residents talk about 'strangers'. Interacting with others is a pleasure of cities, in fact - it's energizing, it builds social trust. We're social animals. I've never gotten on public transit, or walked down a busy sidewalk, and thought about 'strangers'. Most of those people are pretty sociable.
- rayiner 10mo ago
  > They use them heavily when they're available. The NYC subway is very popular and successful, and many see it as a selling point of the city. NYC has only 2.5% of the U.S. population and even then it has net domestic outmigration (meaning more people move out every year than move in). The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks.
  - woodruffw 10mo ago
    > The city would be shrinking if it wasn’t for international immigrants, who don’t come to the city for the public transit, but rather the welfare system and ethnic social networks. I think your numbers are wrong: the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years[1]. We're not even at historic highs; those were before WWI. [1]: https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-city-immigrants/ https://cmsny.org/publications/data-briefing-on-new-york-cit...
    - ordu 10mo ago
      > the city's foreign born population has been stable for at least 15 years This statement doesn't contradict the one about international immigrants keeping the city from shrinking. It is easy to imagine how immigrants come to NY, give birth to natural born Americans, who then move out of the city. This process can come to some kind of a dynamic equilibrium with a stable population of foreign born people.
      - rayiner 10mo ago
        Not only that, when an international immigrant to the city later moves out of the city, like my cousin’s family did, that’s also counted as domestic migration.
- SoftTalker 10mo ago
  Did you hear about the woman in Chicago who was set on fire on a train? Not very sociable. People use the trains in places like Chicago and NYC not simply because they are available but because owning and driving a car in the city center is very expensive and impractical for most people. Anywhere less dense, people prefer to drive their own cars.