4 ms·

If we are discussing C10K we are by definition discussing performance. JavaScript does not enter this conversation any more than BASIC. Yes of course architectu

If we are discussing C10K we are by definition discussing performance. JavaScript does not enter this conversation any more than BASIC. Yes of course architecture matters. Nobody has been arguing otherwise. But the point is that if you take the best architecture and implement it in the best available JS environment you are still nowhere close to the same architecture implemented in a systems language in terms of performance. You are welcome to your wishful thinking that you do not need to learn anything besides JavaScript when it comes to this conversation. But no matter how hard you argue it will continue being wishful thinking. We are discussing tech where having a custom userland TCP stack is not just a viable option but nearly a requirement and you are talking about using a lighter JS framework. We are not having the same conversation. I highly recommend you get off Dunning-Kruger mountain by writing even a basic network server using a systems language to learn something new and interesting. It is more effort than flaming on a forum but much more instructive.

jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
Techempower isn't perfect, but a 33% loss of speed is really not bad versus best of the best web stacks. Your attempt to belittle is the same tired heaping scorn, when the data shows otherwise. But it's so cool to hate! Libuv isn't the most perfect networking stack in the planet, no. It could be improved. We could figure out new ways to get io-uring or some eBPF based or even dpdk bypass userland stack running. Being JS does not limit what you do for networking, in any way. At all. It adds some overhead to the techniques you choose, requires some glue layer. So yes, some cpu and memory efficiency losses. And we can debate whether thats 20% or 50% or more. Techempower shows it's half an order of magnitude worse (10^0.5, 33%). Techempower is a decent proxy for what is available, what you get, without being extremely finicky. Maybe that is the goal, maybe this really is a shoot for the moon effort where you abandon all existing work to get extreme performance, as c10k was, but that makes the entire lesson not actually useful or practical for almost everyone. And if you want to argue against techempower being a proxy for others, for doing extreme work & what is possible at the limit, you have to consider a more extreme js networking than what comes out of box in node.js or Deno too, into a custom engine there too. It's serious sad cope to pretend like it's totally different domains, that js is inherently never going to have good networking, that it can't leverage the same networking techniques you are trying to vaunt over js. The language just isn't that important, the orders of magnitude (<<1 according to the only data/evidence in this thread) are not actually super significant.
- tguvot 10mo ago
  33% loss of speed is really not bad if you don't care about 33% loss of speed.
- IgorPartola 10mo ago
  Look you seem to have made up your mind and are unwilling to listen to knowledge or experience. The tech industry does not do well with willful ignorance so I wish you luck with all that.
  - jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - IgorPartola 10mo ago
      You are clearly engaged in sealioning.
      - jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
        No, I'm pointing out that you have no evidence at all & and aren't trying to speak reasonably or informatively, that you are bullying a belief you have without evidence. I'm presenting evidence. I'm clarifying as I go. I'm adding points of discussion. I'm building a case. I just refuse to be met and torn down by a bunch of useless hot air saying nothing.

jauntywundrkind 10mo ago

Techempower isn't perfect, but a 33% loss of speed is really not bad versus best of the best web stacks. Your attempt to belittle is the same tired heaping scorn, when the data shows otherwise. But it's so cool to hate! Libuv isn't the most perfect networking stack in the planet, no. It could be improved. We could figure out new ways to get io-uring or some eBPF based or even dpdk bypass userland stack running. Being JS does not limit what you do for networking, in any way. At all. It adds some overhead to the techniques you choose, requires some glue layer. So yes, some cpu and memory efficiency losses. And we can debate whether thats 20% or 50% or more. Techempower shows it's half an order of magnitude worse (10^0.5, 33%). Techempower is a decent proxy for what is available, what you get, without being extremely finicky. Maybe that is the goal, maybe this really is a shoot for the moon effort where you abandon all existing work to get extreme performance, as c10k was, but that makes the entire lesson not actually useful or practical for almost everyone. And if you want to argue against techempower being a proxy for others, for doing extreme work & what is possible at the limit, you have to consider a more extreme js networking than what comes out of box in node.js or Deno too, into a custom engine there too. It's serious sad cope to pretend like it's totally different domains, that js is inherently never going to have good networking, that it can't leverage the same networking techniques you are trying to vaunt over js. The language just isn't that important, the orders of magnitude (<<1 according to the only data/evidence in this thread) are not actually super significant.

tguvot 10mo ago
33% loss of speed is really not bad if you don't care about 33% loss of speed.
IgorPartola 10mo ago
Look you seem to have made up your mind and are unwilling to listen to knowledge or experience. The tech industry does not do well with willful ignorance so I wish you luck with all that.
- jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - IgorPartola 10mo ago
    You are clearly engaged in sealioning.
    - jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
      No, I'm pointing out that you have no evidence at all & and aren't trying to speak reasonably or informatively, that you are bullying a belief you have without evidence. I'm presenting evidence. I'm clarifying as I go. I'm adding points of discussion. I'm building a case. I just refuse to be met and torn down by a bunch of useless hot air saying nothing.