8 ms·

All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

132 points by JeanMeche 9mo ago

leobg 9mo ago
[flagged]
- vintagedave 9mo ago
  Not sure what socialism has to do with getting multiple ticket systems to speak to each other. I sometimes worry HN is astroturfed but I tend to read comments like this more simply as trolling.
  - grumpy-de-sre 9mo ago
    Yeh this has more to do with the failures of federation and has nothing to do with socialism. Federation is a huge part of why Germany struggles to deliver on it's digitalization goals. Having every podunk authority handling ticket issuance basically guarantees signing keys will eventually be stolen/misused. The lack of a robust revocation mechanism is the nail in the coffin though.
  - jfengel 9mo ago
    The US provides plenty of anti-socialist fervor even without astroturfing. We also get a bit of paid-for goading, just to keep it lively. But we do just fine without it.
  - ryandrake 9mo ago
    > Not sure what socialism has to do with Nothing. Some people just wake up in the morning and have to interject their "socialism = bad" religion into at least one thread in order to feel they've done their evangelism for the day.
    - cbmuser 9mo ago
      I grew up in a socialist country and anyone equates socialism with failure is 100% spot on. People who think that living in socialism is in any way desirable simply don’t understand what socialism actually means.
- notTooFarGone 9mo ago
  All those socialist... Companies? With their socialist coding? Maybe they also use Marx# (M#) with a socialist software architecture.
  - blell 9mo ago
    Isn’t the Deutschlandticket for public transportation?
    - immibis 9mo ago
      Privately owned and operated transportation, where the main government involvement is just telling them to make it happen and then giving a certain amount of money per active subscription.
  - 476392647282 9mo ago
    [flagged]
- sschueller 9mo ago
  Kind of proof that privatizing public infrastructure does not work without very tight regulations. The profits and benefits in infrastructure go towards a state and are long term. A private company cannot increase their stock price on a 100 year goal and a countries GDP growth.
  - throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
    Yep. "Socialist lure" is a very US american perspective and far off the real past of most EU nations. The same budget hawks that drive tax cuts and are hollowing out public institutions were directing the privatization of the Deutschebahn. Thats why its not a single company but over 250 of them, for all the naturally competing segments of that gigantic infrastructure. You know, for maximum free-market efficiency, but somehow, blame is still not privatized. Id like to know the US position on why socialism is failing their infrastructure, like power grinds.
    - Centigonal 9mo ago
      Our infrastructure runs on freedom and good ol' American grit! Take for example our beautiful highways. They were built after the war (which, by the way, America WON), by the US Army (the greatest fighting force on Earth), using $100B of 1950s taxpayer money (mostly gasoline taxes). Just plain ol' simple taxation of the public to support social programs built and maintained by the government. Now if that's socialism, call me a socialist, but dang if it didn't work. Not sure why we can't do that anymore, but I try not to think about it too hard. Yeehaw!
    - veqq 9mo ago
      > why socialism is failing their infrastructure "socialism" is vague and meaningless, yes. But poor regulations are a huge problem in the US. Copying a comment from my notes (I didn't write it): The year is 2010. The Los Angeles Department of Water & Power (LADWP) publishes its initial environmental study [1] on a large power infrastructure maintenance project. A portion of the project involves replacing about 200 wooden power poles that run through Pacific Palisades. The California State Lands Commission reviewed [2] the initial study and requested that LADWP provide a Native American Ground Monitor [3] during any digging to ensure that cultural resources are not inadvertently damaged or destroyed. By the final EIR [2] in 2016 LADWP decided that replacing all of those +70 year old power poles was no longer necessary. The year is 2018. The Camp Fire ignites in northern California. Its cause was the failure of a 100 year old power line. By early 2019 LADWP decides to replace [4] those 70 year old powerlines running through Pacific Palisades, they're in a now deemed high fire threat area. The California Public Utilities Commission has recommended they be replaced as soon as possible. Work is to start in 2019. July 7th, 2019. LADWP has started work to replace the power lines, as well as leveling and grading new fire roads. Amateur botanist and avid hiker David Pluenneke is hiking in the area. David is a member of the California Native Plant Society [5]. He sees that LADWP has trampled the endangered Braunton’s milkvetch. In all, 183 milkvetches [6] were murdered. As a result: - All newly constructed fire roads must be unconstructed and returned to their original condition. - Any work must be supervised by an on site project biologist, or biologists if the worksite is large. These observers will make daily surveys of sensitive wildlife species and they have the authority to stop any work that could result in their harm. - LADWP agrees to excavate the new powerline poles by hand, with shovels. Workers will walk to the site. Helicopters will bring in the new poles and remove the old. - No construction activities that generate noise above 60 dBA (loudness of an average conversation) may take place during bird nesting season, which runs from mid February to mid September. Of course this requires another observer biologist, a bird biologist, to verify. Checking Google Street View, as of August 2023 these poles were not replaced. [7] But overall there are 300,000+ [8] power poles in LA. As of 2019, 65% of them were older than the average lifespan of 50 years old. In 2024, LADWP replaced just 2743 poles. [9] Their average cost to replace a pole in the same year was $69,300. [10] At their 2024 rates it will take LADWP over 70 years and $14 billion to replace all past lifespan poles. [1] https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/AppA_SGRS_Replacement_Project_Initial_Study_03_14_14.pdf https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/AppA_SGR... [2] https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/SGRS_Final_EIR_July_2016.pdf https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/SGRS_Fin... [3] https://farwestern.com/monitoring/ https://farwestern.com/monitoring/ [4] https://www.ladwpnews.com/ladwp-statement-on-power-pole-replacement-project-in-elevated-fire-risk-area/ https://www.ladwpnews.com/ladwp-statement-on-power-pole-repl... [5] https://www.cnps.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Compressed-Digital-Flora_V4N2-Winter-2021.pdf https://www.cnps.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Compressed-D... [6] https://www.courthousenews.com/la-to-pay-1-9-million-for-utility-crew-damage-to-endangered-plants/ https://www.courthousenews.com/la-to-pay-1-9-million-for-uti... [7] https://earth.google.com/web/search/Temescal+Ridge+Fire+Road/@34.0834376,-118.54707986,539.44683838a,0d,53.99465162y,301.77292071h,96.77167572t,0r/data=CiwiJgokCcFtpdHjFEFAEa5yJy9GB0FAGUsYiizRnF3AITY88uj-qV3AQgIIASIaChZDSUhNMG9nS0VJQ0FnSURidjZ5SUxREAVCAggASg0I____________ARAA https://earth.google.com/web/search/Temescal+Ridge+Fire+Road... [8] https://ladwp-jtti.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/10/24100526/LADWP-2018-19-Power-Infrastructure-Plan.pdf https://ladwp-jtti.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/upl... [9] https://prp.ladwp.com/ https://prp.ladwp.com/ [10] https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/2025-09/Rates%20Metrics%20Semi-Annual%20Report%20approved%20by%20the%20Board.pdf https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/2025-09/Rates%20Me...
- rsynnott 9mo ago
  Huh? I mean if anything the problem here was privatisation of local transport (and too much faith in said privatised transport by the national authorities), which doesn’t seem _particularly_ socialist.
- dang 9mo ago
  "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - vasco 9mo ago
    Funnily enough it generated the most interesting subthread of this submission.
    - dang 9mo ago
      Even if that's true - let's assume that it is - moderation has to go by the expected outcome. In this case the expected outcome is certainly a flamewar. A bad hand does still win the pot sometimes, but that doesn't make it the right play!
jiehong 9mo ago
Germany has missed the digitalisation train, but how long will it continue to miss it for? At least, transparent issues like this one can only help.
- chvid 9mo ago
  The problem is the lack of centralization - there should obviously only be one issuer of this ticket and thus just only one website / app to keep bug free.
  - lachiflippi 9mo ago
    Lack of centralization is one part of it (see also: communal digital services), yes, but the complete lack of standards and guidelines is also a massive issue. I tried buying a Deutschlandticket from the DB Navigator app a while back, and immediately ran into some issues: - they only take credit card, probably because of the massive SEPA fraud they've had happen - they require id verification with a third party(!), which then only supports the e-perso(!!) or video ident(!!!), which they could've just used the actual PostIdent service for, which would've provided an alternative for non-smartphone-havers / people who'd rather not have their ID and face recorded by some Eastern European company until the end of time - their entire authentication system was down when it came to actually purchasing buying from my local Verkehrsverbund was a single tap in their app instead, with no id verification whatsoever. If DB's offering were the only option it would be an absolute travesty.
    - kevin_thibedeau 9mo ago
      Hetzner does this invasive ID flow for credit cards now. Fortunately they don't bother with PayPal.
      - lxgr 9mo ago
        Airbnb wanted access to my bank account transaction details (via Plaid) a while ago, "to verify my credit card". Hotels have never looked so appealing.
lysace 9mo ago
tl;dw please?
- nottorp 9mo ago
  "Transcript" it's called :)
  - lysace 9mo ago
    ChatGPT managed the following given the submitted source URL and the prompt "summarize the key technical facts into two sentences suitable for a hacker news comment". Deutschlandticket fraud stemmed from decentralization and weak controls: tickets were issued instantly on unverified SEPA debits, and a leaked or mismanaged signing key let attackers mint valid tickets at scale. Poor revocation and fragmented verification meant many fraudulent tickets still scanned as valid, enabling mass resale and huge losses.
    - akrauss 9mo ago
      This is a good concise summary, regardless of provenance.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - striking 9mo ago
      Instead of making a fuss, have you considered taking another look at the video page? It includes a summary that helps show why those technical facts are actually relevant in the context of German society, and hints at how those things came to happen. I would normally not bother with a comment, but this time I'm genuinely curious as to how someone might have missed scrolling down to see the summary. (edit: the fussy bit, where the poster complains about downvotes, has been edited out. I'm leaving my comment the way it is.)
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
WalterBright 9mo ago
Uh, I received a call from my credit card company saying that train tickets were bought using my card in Germany. I told them I haven't been in Germany for the last decade, and was issued a new card.
- tialaramex 9mo ago
  So at least your credit card issuer (presumably) actually has a working fraud department. In the private sector, fraud detection is often heuristic based. So this was probably flagged because you didn't buy German railway tickets in the recent past and maybe even you didn't buy anything else in or near Germany. I remember years ago getting a decline on a credit card transaction to pay for one of my ISPs, and then hours later a phone call. My bank apparently didn't understand (yet, this is years ago) that ISPs are like, not necessarily physically nearby and so since the ISP is on another continent and I had no other nearby transactions it was flagged as likely fraud.
okr 9mo ago
Is there a similar ticket, flat for 50 Dollar per month, that takes you through the US? I wonder who pays for the real cost of the ticket, who cleans and repairs the trains, who invests in infrastructure and all that. I always wonder how the germans can pull this off for 50 Euro. Magic.
- netsharc 9mo ago
  Continental USA: 8 million square kilometer. Germany: 0.35 million square kilometer. On the point of the upkeep, locals know German trains are now legendary for unpunctuality and cancellations, so maybe it's not working. But the answer is obviously (trigger warning for the libertarians...) taxes. The ticket came about because energy prices went crazy after their energy dealer Putin went crazy and warry, I think it was an attempt to motivate people to take public transport rather than have them moan about fuel prices going way way up...
  - fxwin 9mo ago
    fyi regional trains (which the deutschlandticket is valid for) are very punctual, it is the long distance/ICE trains that are always late/broken, and you cannot ride those with thw deutschlandticket anyways.
    - bajinga 9mo ago
      no they are not. source: i am german and i use regional trains occasionally
      - panick21_ 9mo ago
        Most local and S-Bahn trains in Germany are pretty decent, data is pretty clear on this. Its not Swiss level but still pretty good. Nothing compare to ICE.
        ngruhn 9mo ago
        not sure what you count RB/RE as, but they are absolutely broken as well in my experience.
g0db1t 9mo ago
[dead]
AdrianB1 9mo ago
It looks like another system made by politicians to check a box on a list. "Digitalize" is not a purpose, it's a solution to a problem, but for many politicians it's a checkbox on the list of political promises and empty words they sell. Also in Europe excellence is not rewarded. Nobody become a millionaire by designing and building great IT systems, there is no SV salary to attract and motivate talents, so we are drowning in mediocrity and when the governments are making systems, barely delivering something is the norm. The quality of requirements is very low (who will do better?), the deliverables are either from the lowest bidder or from the party in power friends, depending on the country and project.

132 points by JeanMeche 9mo ago

leobg 9mo ago

[flagged]

vintagedave 9mo ago
Not sure what socialism has to do with getting multiple ticket systems to speak to each other. I sometimes worry HN is astroturfed but I tend to read comments like this more simply as trolling.
- grumpy-de-sre 9mo ago
  Yeh this has more to do with the failures of federation and has nothing to do with socialism. Federation is a huge part of why Germany struggles to deliver on it's digitalization goals. Having every podunk authority handling ticket issuance basically guarantees signing keys will eventually be stolen/misused. The lack of a robust revocation mechanism is the nail in the coffin though.
- jfengel 9mo ago
  The US provides plenty of anti-socialist fervor even without astroturfing. We also get a bit of paid-for goading, just to keep it lively. But we do just fine without it.
- ryandrake 9mo ago
  > Not sure what socialism has to do with Nothing. Some people just wake up in the morning and have to interject their "socialism = bad" religion into at least one thread in order to feel they've done their evangelism for the day.
  - cbmuser 9mo ago
    I grew up in a socialist country and anyone equates socialism with failure is 100% spot on. People who think that living in socialism is in any way desirable simply don’t understand what socialism actually means.
notTooFarGone 9mo ago
All those socialist... Companies? With their socialist coding? Maybe they also use Marx# (M#) with a socialist software architecture.
- blell 9mo ago
  Isn’t the Deutschlandticket for public transportation?
  - immibis 9mo ago
    Privately owned and operated transportation, where the main government involvement is just telling them to make it happen and then giving a certain amount of money per active subscription.
- 476392647282 9mo ago
  [flagged]
sschueller 9mo ago
Kind of proof that privatizing public infrastructure does not work without very tight regulations. The profits and benefits in infrastructure go towards a state and are long term. A private company cannot increase their stock price on a 100 year goal and a countries GDP growth.
- throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
  Yep. "Socialist lure" is a very US american perspective and far off the real past of most EU nations. The same budget hawks that drive tax cuts and are hollowing out public institutions were directing the privatization of the Deutschebahn. Thats why its not a single company but over 250 of them, for all the naturally competing segments of that gigantic infrastructure. You know, for maximum free-market efficiency, but somehow, blame is still not privatized. Id like to know the US position on why socialism is failing their infrastructure, like power grinds.
  - Centigonal 9mo ago
    Our infrastructure runs on freedom and good ol' American grit! Take for example our beautiful highways. They were built after the war (which, by the way, America WON), by the US Army (the greatest fighting force on Earth), using $100B of 1950s taxpayer money (mostly gasoline taxes). Just plain ol' simple taxation of the public to support social programs built and maintained by the government. Now if that's socialism, call me a socialist, but dang if it didn't work. Not sure why we can't do that anymore, but I try not to think about it too hard. Yeehaw!
  - veqq 9mo ago
    > why socialism is failing their infrastructure "socialism" is vague and meaningless, yes. But poor regulations are a huge problem in the US. Copying a comment from my notes (I didn't write it): The year is 2010. The Los Angeles Department of Water & Power (LADWP) publishes its initial environmental study [1] on a large power infrastructure maintenance project. A portion of the project involves replacing about 200 wooden power poles that run through Pacific Palisades. The California State Lands Commission reviewed [2] the initial study and requested that LADWP provide a Native American Ground Monitor [3] during any digging to ensure that cultural resources are not inadvertently damaged or destroyed. By the final EIR [2] in 2016 LADWP decided that replacing all of those +70 year old power poles was no longer necessary. The year is 2018. The Camp Fire ignites in northern California. Its cause was the failure of a 100 year old power line. By early 2019 LADWP decides to replace [4] those 70 year old powerlines running through Pacific Palisades, they're in a now deemed high fire threat area. The California Public Utilities Commission has recommended they be replaced as soon as possible. Work is to start in 2019. July 7th, 2019. LADWP has started work to replace the power lines, as well as leveling and grading new fire roads. Amateur botanist and avid hiker David Pluenneke is hiking in the area. David is a member of the California Native Plant Society [5]. He sees that LADWP has trampled the endangered Braunton’s milkvetch. In all, 183 milkvetches [6] were murdered. As a result: - All newly constructed fire roads must be unconstructed and returned to their original condition. - Any work must be supervised by an on site project biologist, or biologists if the worksite is large. These observers will make daily surveys of sensitive wildlife species and they have the authority to stop any work that could result in their harm. - LADWP agrees to excavate the new powerline poles by hand, with shovels. Workers will walk to the site. Helicopters will bring in the new poles and remove the old. - No construction activities that generate noise above 60 dBA (loudness of an average conversation) may take place during bird nesting season, which runs from mid February to mid September. Of course this requires another observer biologist, a bird biologist, to verify. Checking Google Street View, as of August 2023 these poles were not replaced. [7] But overall there are 300,000+ [8] power poles in LA. As of 2019, 65% of them were older than the average lifespan of 50 years old. In 2024, LADWP replaced just 2743 poles. [9] Their average cost to replace a pole in the same year was $69,300. [10] At their 2024 rates it will take LADWP over 70 years and $14 billion to replace all past lifespan poles. [1] https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/AppA_SGRS_Replacement_Project_Initial_Study_03_14_14.pdf https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/AppA_SGR... [2] https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/SGRS_Final_EIR_July_2016.pdf https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/documents/SGRS_Fin... [3] https://farwestern.com/monitoring/ https://farwestern.com/monitoring/ [4] https://www.ladwpnews.com/ladwp-statement-on-power-pole-replacement-project-in-elevated-fire-risk-area/ https://www.ladwpnews.com/ladwp-statement-on-power-pole-repl... [5] https://www.cnps.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Compressed-Digital-Flora_V4N2-Winter-2021.pdf https://www.cnps.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Compressed-D... [6] https://www.courthousenews.com/la-to-pay-1-9-million-for-utility-crew-damage-to-endangered-plants/ https://www.courthousenews.com/la-to-pay-1-9-million-for-uti... [7] https://earth.google.com/web/search/Temescal+Ridge+Fire+Road/@34.0834376,-118.54707986,539.44683838a,0d,53.99465162y,301.77292071h,96.77167572t,0r/data=CiwiJgokCcFtpdHjFEFAEa5yJy9GB0FAGUsYiizRnF3AITY88uj-qV3AQgIIASIaChZDSUhNMG9nS0VJQ0FnSURidjZ5SUxREAVCAggASg0I____________ARAA https://earth.google.com/web/search/Temescal+Ridge+Fire+Road... [8] https://ladwp-jtti.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/10/24100526/LADWP-2018-19-Power-Infrastructure-Plan.pdf https://ladwp-jtti.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/upl... [9] https://prp.ladwp.com/ https://prp.ladwp.com/ [10] https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/2025-09/Rates%20Metrics%20Semi-Annual%20Report%20approved%20by%20the%20Board.pdf https://www.ladwp.com/sites/default/files/2025-09/Rates%20Me...
rsynnott 9mo ago
Huh? I mean if anything the problem here was privatisation of local transport (and too much faith in said privatised transport by the national authorities), which doesn’t seem _particularly_ socialist.
dang 9mo ago
"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- vasco 9mo ago
  Funnily enough it generated the most interesting subthread of this submission.
  - dang 9mo ago
    Even if that's true - let's assume that it is - moderation has to go by the expected outcome. In this case the expected outcome is certainly a flamewar. A bad hand does still win the pot sometimes, but that doesn't make it the right play!

jiehong 9mo ago

Germany has missed the digitalisation train, but how long will it continue to miss it for? At least, transparent issues like this one can only help.

chvid 9mo ago
The problem is the lack of centralization - there should obviously only be one issuer of this ticket and thus just only one website / app to keep bug free.
- lachiflippi 9mo ago
  Lack of centralization is one part of it (see also: communal digital services), yes, but the complete lack of standards and guidelines is also a massive issue. I tried buying a Deutschlandticket from the DB Navigator app a while back, and immediately ran into some issues: - they only take credit card, probably because of the massive SEPA fraud they've had happen - they require id verification with a third party(!), which then only supports the e-perso(!!) or video ident(!!!), which they could've just used the actual PostIdent service for, which would've provided an alternative for non-smartphone-havers / people who'd rather not have their ID and face recorded by some Eastern European company until the end of time - their entire authentication system was down when it came to actually purchasing buying from my local Verkehrsverbund was a single tap in their app instead, with no id verification whatsoever. If DB's offering were the only option it would be an absolute travesty.
  - kevin_thibedeau 9mo ago
    Hetzner does this invasive ID flow for credit cards now. Fortunately they don't bother with PayPal.
    - lxgr 9mo ago
      Airbnb wanted access to my bank account transaction details (via Plaid) a while ago, "to verify my credit card". Hotels have never looked so appealing.

lysace 9mo ago

tl;dw please?

nottorp 9mo ago
"Transcript" it's called :)
- lysace 9mo ago
  ChatGPT managed the following given the submitted source URL and the prompt "summarize the key technical facts into two sentences suitable for a hacker news comment". Deutschlandticket fraud stemmed from decentralization and weak controls: tickets were issued instantly on unverified SEPA debits, and a leaked or mismanaged signing key let attackers mint valid tickets at scale. Poor revocation and fragmented verification meant many fraudulent tickets still scanned as valid, enabling mass resale and huge losses.
  - akrauss 9mo ago
    This is a good concise summary, regardless of provenance.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - striking 9mo ago
    Instead of making a fuss, have you considered taking another look at the video page? It includes a summary that helps show why those technical facts are actually relevant in the context of German society, and hints at how those things came to happen. I would normally not bother with a comment, but this time I'm genuinely curious as to how someone might have missed scrolling down to see the summary. (edit: the fussy bit, where the poster complains about downvotes, has been edited out. I'm leaving my comment the way it is.)
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]

WalterBright 9mo ago

Uh, I received a call from my credit card company saying that train tickets were bought using my card in Germany. I told them I haven't been in Germany for the last decade, and was issued a new card.

tialaramex 9mo ago
So at least your credit card issuer (presumably) actually has a working fraud department. In the private sector, fraud detection is often heuristic based. So this was probably flagged because you didn't buy German railway tickets in the recent past and maybe even you didn't buy anything else in or near Germany. I remember years ago getting a decline on a credit card transaction to pay for one of my ISPs, and then hours later a phone call. My bank apparently didn't understand (yet, this is years ago) that ISPs are like, not necessarily physically nearby and so since the ISP is on another continent and I had no other nearby transactions it was flagged as likely fraud.

okr 9mo ago

Is there a similar ticket, flat for 50 Dollar per month, that takes you through the US? I wonder who pays for the real cost of the ticket, who cleans and repairs the trains, who invests in infrastructure and all that. I always wonder how the germans can pull this off for 50 Euro. Magic.

netsharc 9mo ago
Continental USA: 8 million square kilometer. Germany: 0.35 million square kilometer. On the point of the upkeep, locals know German trains are now legendary for unpunctuality and cancellations, so maybe it's not working. But the answer is obviously (trigger warning for the libertarians...) taxes. The ticket came about because energy prices went crazy after their energy dealer Putin went crazy and warry, I think it was an attempt to motivate people to take public transport rather than have them moan about fuel prices going way way up...
- fxwin 9mo ago
  fyi regional trains (which the deutschlandticket is valid for) are very punctual, it is the long distance/ICE trains that are always late/broken, and you cannot ride those with thw deutschlandticket anyways.
  - bajinga 9mo ago
    no they are not. source: i am german and i use regional trains occasionally
    - panick21_ 9mo ago
      Most local and S-Bahn trains in Germany are pretty decent, data is pretty clear on this. Its not Swiss level but still pretty good. Nothing compare to ICE.
      - ngruhn 9mo ago
        not sure what you count RB/RE as, but they are absolutely broken as well in my experience.

g0db1t 9mo ago

[dead]

AdrianB1 9mo ago

It looks like another system made by politicians to check a box on a list. "Digitalize" is not a purpose, it's a solution to a problem, but for many politicians it's a checkbox on the list of political promises and empty words they sell. Also in Europe excellence is not rewarded. Nobody become a millionaire by designing and building great IT systems, there is no SV salary to attract and motivate talents, so we are drowning in mediocrity and when the governments are making systems, barely delivering something is the norm. The quality of requirements is very low (who will do better?), the deliverables are either from the lowest bidder or from the party in power friends, depending on the country and project.