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I just hope that my current Mac keeps being usable long enough that Liquid Glass has been fixed or replaced entirely by the time I'm forced to upgrade to whatev

I just hope that my current Mac keeps being usable long enough that Liquid Glass has been fixed or replaced entirely by the time I'm forced to upgrade to whatever's shipping on my next computer.

stefanfisk 10mo ago
My kid dumped a glass of water all over my MBP M1 a few days ago. Deciding between an inferior M4 with Sequoia or a fancy new M5 with Tahoe has been rough :/
- HelloUsername 10mo ago
  > dumped a glass of water all over my MBP I believe that's how the designers at Apple came up with Liquid Glass
- dghost-dev 10mo ago
  Liquid Glass is not that bad lol.
  - stefanfisk 10mo ago
    Neither is an M4 Pro.
- coldpie 10mo ago
  If it helps, I've been using XFCE since 2007 and it's remained functionally identical for all of those almost 20 years. It just works, it improves a tiny bit with each major upgrade, and they don't rearrange everything every couple years for the sake of justifying a salary. Maybe it's a good opportunity to consider whether you actually have to keep running on Apple's treadmill.
  - baq 10mo ago
    I’d love an XFCE (or even gnome tbh) environment on a properly built laptop, unfortunately only Apple is able to build something that works in all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck.
    - coldpie 10mo ago
      FWIW that all worked out of the box for me on my Intel Framework. But yes, it's fair to say there are tradeoffs for each solution. Maybe Apple's cons are getting big enough these days. Worth considering.
    - gray_-_wolf 10mo ago
      > all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck. All of these seem to be fine on my thinkpad (true, I probably have somewhat lower standards for passable display). Battery life sucks a bit, what I can usually fine outlet somewhat to plug into.
    - somebehemoth 10mo ago
      I have an oled thinkpad running fedora that has never had a sleep issue. Excellent touchpad as well. Thinkpad X1 Carbon.
      - tasuki 10mo ago
        Which version? I have a X1 Carbon from, uhh, 2017? It supports S3 sleep. I'd think about an upgrade, if only I wasn't worried about sleep issues. I run Debian if that makes any difference. Actually now that I think about it, my visceral reaction is one of dread: a feeling the trouble will be more than the benefit of a new computer.
      - stefanfisk 10mo ago
        For me the touchpad experience is not just about the hardware. I got a Magic Trackpad for my Linux desktop hoping that it would at least be somewhat comparable to my MacBook. But scrolling and gestures are nowhere near as consistent and fluid as in macOS since the software support just isn't there. As a fairly typical example, getting Firefox on Linux to actually scroll smoothly takes googling and fiddling with settings. Gesture support is hit or miss. On macOS, Firefox behaves just like any other native app in this regard.
        bigyabai 10mo ago
  - stefanfisk 10mo ago
    I’ve combined my MacBook with a Linux desktop for about five years now. Linux has its pros as a developer, but IMHO daily driving it is like walking around with pebbles in my shoes. Something as basic as scrolling feels slightly inconsistent in just about every app and keybindings are all over the place. There’s always the allure of getting the config ”just right” but after a while I swear I start seeing Sisyphus’ reflection in my screen.
    - coldpie 10mo ago
      What DE are you using? Some of the higher profile ones (Gnome, KDE) try to be all smooth and polished and feature-full and in my opinion just introduce more complications and bugs that get in the way of just being a good desktop. I like XFCE because it's just a really good, simple window manager, desktop, and set of basic utilities. Other than that it just gets out of your way and doesn't make you relearn how to do things every few years. It's like if the Win98 desktop got another 30 years of gentle refinement.
      - stefanfisk 10mo ago
        I’ve tried XFCE, i3, Pop Shell and plain Gnome. But it doesn’t really matter, since the DE doesn’t determine how individual apps behave. My baseline is OSX from decade ago OSX with native apps where everyone was following the Apple HIG so consistently that using a Java app felt like waking up in the twilight zone. macOS these days have fallen quite a bit from its UX glory days but there’s still quite a bit to go before it hits the level of Ubuntu or Windows. On Linux it feels to me like every app exists in its own parallell dimension where you never know if even the basic laws of physics still apply.
        coldpie 10mo ago
        Fair. I guess I haven't had that experience, but so much stuff is web-based these days that probably 90% of my computing time is just spent in a browser and the rest in just a handful of applications that I know well.
- deleted 10mo ago
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- deleted 10mo ago
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- dpedu 10mo ago
  There could be hope for it, but it might be too late now. I dumped tea on my M1 Macbook air earlier this year. I managed to save it - sort of. I had to replace the battery. The screen was working but also had liquid damage so I replaced it as well. Immediately after spilling tea on it I shut it off, took off the bottom plate, rinsed it with water, and rinsed it again with isopropyl alcohol. I think I waved a heat gun over it for a bit and then left it in front of a fan. This was about 8 months ago and it still works! The only lingering problem is that when caps lock is off, the light on the key is slightly illuminated. Weird, but I can tolerate that!
  - stefanfisk 10mo ago
    ”What doesn’t kill your only cripples you for life” best describes its state. I did my best to dry it up ASAP but when I flipped it over water started pouring out of the rear fan grid… TouchID no longer works, Bluetooth reception is shit and various keys feel sticky/crunchy. I’d keep it as-is if it wasn’t my main work machine.
- RickyLahey 10mo ago
  are macs m5 out? can you wait that long?
  - stefanfisk 10mo ago
    The base M5 is available for MBP 14”. The M5 SSD is almost 2x as fast and single core performance is 10+ % better. The issue is that they cannot be downgraded to Sequoia. So one has to decide on what’s preferable - a step up for HW but a step down for OS or vice versa? One would hope that Tahoe improves with time but considering the trajectory of both macOS and iOS I fear that it will take years to resolve the UX and bug issues if it ever happens.
    - RickyLahey 10mo ago
      wow thanks i somehow missed that. I like to disable SIP and gut my Mac OS but i know that's not a very safe choice
colechristensen 10mo ago
eh, the problems aren't prominent on macOS.
adolph 10mo ago
Eventually it will go away just like brushed metal, lickable, green felt, and woodgrain. Unfortunately for that to happen they will need to invent something so heinous you will wish for liquid glass.
- bookofjoe 10mo ago
  https://imgur.com/a/5uHuYyV https://imgur.com/a/5uHuYyV
- egypturnash 10mo ago
  Personally I would be down for a return to woodgrain or brushed metal.
  - adolph 10mo ago
    I was going to reply "Susan Kare's bitmap pinstripes or bust" but based on this interview [0] that was Andy Hertzfeld. 0. https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/primary/interviews/kare/trans.html https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/primary/intervie...
eoskx 10mo ago
I thought Liquid Glass was cool & interesting when I first saw it in the Developer releases, but I find myself yearning to go back to Sequoia. Hopefully, Apple decides to go back to "simple" soon.
rayiner 10mo ago
It’s infuriating that you can’t downgrade.
- docmars 10mo ago
  Especially when Sequoia will be supported by security updates for at least another 1-2 years. There aren't any compelling "gotta have it" reasons to upgrade to Tahoe.
  - stefandesu 10mo ago
    Work is forcing us to upgrade to Tahoe end of January, not looking forward to it.
    - docmars 10mo ago
      My workplace's dumbass outsourced IT group forced the upgrade the day Tahoe came out, without giving us time to assess the risks for software compatibility or stability first. Companies need to make it optional until security updates are no longer available for the previous major version.
encom 10mo ago
Just keep giving Apple more money. That'll show them!
- jasonvorhe 10mo ago
  How is using an already paid for computer giving more money to Apple?
  - simne 10mo ago
    They treat you belong to community, and use your appearance in hidden ads as "just another consumer choose A.. products". Even if you will intentionally hide all logos of A.. from A.. products u use, their design is very distinctive and widely known, so even looking on Xiaomi most people will think it is A.. Plus, A.. products usually deep integrated into their infrastructure, I mean A.. Wi-fi router, A.. printer, A.. speakers, A.. interfaces (Lightning), etc.
  - DetectDefect 10mo ago
    Simple market economics, really: the more people sell their Apple computer, the more supply there is, ergo its value will decrease, and the relative value of the brand with it. You are doing the inverse of this.

I just hope that my current Mac keeps being usable long enough that Liquid Glass has been fixed or replaced entirely by the time I'm forced to upgrade to whatever's shipping on my next computer.

stefanfisk 10mo ago

My kid dumped a glass of water all over my MBP M1 a few days ago. Deciding between an inferior M4 with Sequoia or a fancy new M5 with Tahoe has been rough :/

HelloUsername 10mo ago
> dumped a glass of water all over my MBP I believe that's how the designers at Apple came up with Liquid Glass
dghost-dev 10mo ago
Liquid Glass is not that bad lol.
- stefanfisk 10mo ago
  Neither is an M4 Pro.
coldpie 10mo ago
If it helps, I've been using XFCE since 2007 and it's remained functionally identical for all of those almost 20 years. It just works, it improves a tiny bit with each major upgrade, and they don't rearrange everything every couple years for the sake of justifying a salary. Maybe it's a good opportunity to consider whether you actually have to keep running on Apple's treadmill.
- baq 10mo ago
  I’d love an XFCE (or even gnome tbh) environment on a properly built laptop, unfortunately only Apple is able to build something that works in all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck.
  - coldpie 10mo ago
    FWIW that all worked out of the box for me on my Intel Framework. But yes, it's fair to say there are tradeoffs for each solution. Maybe Apple's cons are getting big enough these days. Worth considering.
  - gray_-_wolf 10mo ago
    > all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck. All of these seem to be fine on my thinkpad (true, I probably have somewhat lower standards for passable display). Battery life sucks a bit, what I can usually fine outlet somewhat to plug into.
  - somebehemoth 10mo ago
    I have an oled thinkpad running fedora that has never had a sleep issue. Excellent touchpad as well. Thinkpad X1 Carbon.
    - tasuki 10mo ago
      Which version? I have a X1 Carbon from, uhh, 2017? It supports S3 sleep. I'd think about an upgrade, if only I wasn't worried about sleep issues. I run Debian if that makes any difference. Actually now that I think about it, my visceral reaction is one of dread: a feeling the trouble will be more than the benefit of a new computer.
    - stefanfisk 10mo ago
      For me the touchpad experience is not just about the hardware. I got a Magic Trackpad for my Linux desktop hoping that it would at least be somewhat comparable to my MacBook. But scrolling and gestures are nowhere near as consistent and fluid as in macOS since the software support just isn't there. As a fairly typical example, getting Firefox on Linux to actually scroll smoothly takes googling and fiddling with settings. Gesture support is hit or miss. On macOS, Firefox behaves just like any other native app in this regard.
      - bigyabai 10mo ago
- stefanfisk 10mo ago
  I’ve combined my MacBook with a Linux desktop for about five years now. Linux has its pros as a developer, but IMHO daily driving it is like walking around with pebbles in my shoes. Something as basic as scrolling feels slightly inconsistent in just about every app and keybindings are all over the place. There’s always the allure of getting the config ”just right” but after a while I swear I start seeing Sisyphus’ reflection in my screen.
  - coldpie 10mo ago
    What DE are you using? Some of the higher profile ones (Gnome, KDE) try to be all smooth and polished and feature-full and in my opinion just introduce more complications and bugs that get in the way of just being a good desktop. I like XFCE because it's just a really good, simple window manager, desktop, and set of basic utilities. Other than that it just gets out of your way and doesn't make you relearn how to do things every few years. It's like if the Win98 desktop got another 30 years of gentle refinement.
    - stefanfisk 10mo ago
      I’ve tried XFCE, i3, Pop Shell and plain Gnome. But it doesn’t really matter, since the DE doesn’t determine how individual apps behave. My baseline is OSX from decade ago OSX with native apps where everyone was following the Apple HIG so consistently that using a Java app felt like waking up in the twilight zone. macOS these days have fallen quite a bit from its UX glory days but there’s still quite a bit to go before it hits the level of Ubuntu or Windows. On Linux it feels to me like every app exists in its own parallell dimension where you never know if even the basic laws of physics still apply.
      - coldpie 10mo ago
        Fair. I guess I haven't had that experience, but so much stuff is web-based these days that probably 90% of my computing time is just spent in a browser and the rest in just a handful of applications that I know well.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
dpedu 10mo ago
There could be hope for it, but it might be too late now. I dumped tea on my M1 Macbook air earlier this year. I managed to save it - sort of. I had to replace the battery. The screen was working but also had liquid damage so I replaced it as well. Immediately after spilling tea on it I shut it off, took off the bottom plate, rinsed it with water, and rinsed it again with isopropyl alcohol. I think I waved a heat gun over it for a bit and then left it in front of a fan. This was about 8 months ago and it still works! The only lingering problem is that when caps lock is off, the light on the key is slightly illuminated. Weird, but I can tolerate that!
- stefanfisk 10mo ago
  ”What doesn’t kill your only cripples you for life” best describes its state. I did my best to dry it up ASAP but when I flipped it over water started pouring out of the rear fan grid… TouchID no longer works, Bluetooth reception is shit and various keys feel sticky/crunchy. I’d keep it as-is if it wasn’t my main work machine.
RickyLahey 10mo ago
are macs m5 out? can you wait that long?
- stefanfisk 10mo ago
  The base M5 is available for MBP 14”. The M5 SSD is almost 2x as fast and single core performance is 10+ % better. The issue is that they cannot be downgraded to Sequoia. So one has to decide on what’s preferable - a step up for HW but a step down for OS or vice versa? One would hope that Tahoe improves with time but considering the trajectory of both macOS and iOS I fear that it will take years to resolve the UX and bug issues if it ever happens.
  - RickyLahey 10mo ago
    wow thanks i somehow missed that. I like to disable SIP and gut my Mac OS but i know that's not a very safe choice

colechristensen 10mo ago

eh, the problems aren't prominent on macOS.

adolph 10mo ago

Eventually it will go away just like brushed metal, lickable, green felt, and woodgrain. Unfortunately for that to happen they will need to invent something so heinous you will wish for liquid glass.

bookofjoe 10mo ago
https://imgur.com/a/5uHuYyV https://imgur.com/a/5uHuYyV
egypturnash 10mo ago
Personally I would be down for a return to woodgrain or brushed metal.
- adolph 10mo ago
  I was going to reply "Susan Kare's bitmap pinstripes or bust" but based on this interview [0] that was Andy Hertzfeld. 0. https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/primary/interviews/kare/trans.html https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/primary/intervie...

eoskx 10mo ago

I thought Liquid Glass was cool & interesting when I first saw it in the Developer releases, but I find myself yearning to go back to Sequoia. Hopefully, Apple decides to go back to "simple" soon.

rayiner 10mo ago

It’s infuriating that you can’t downgrade.

docmars 10mo ago
Especially when Sequoia will be supported by security updates for at least another 1-2 years. There aren't any compelling "gotta have it" reasons to upgrade to Tahoe.
- stefandesu 10mo ago
  Work is forcing us to upgrade to Tahoe end of January, not looking forward to it.
  - docmars 10mo ago
    My workplace's dumbass outsourced IT group forced the upgrade the day Tahoe came out, without giving us time to assess the risks for software compatibility or stability first. Companies need to make it optional until security updates are no longer available for the previous major version.

encom 10mo ago

Just keep giving Apple more money. That'll show them!

jasonvorhe 10mo ago
How is using an already paid for computer giving more money to Apple?
- simne 10mo ago
  They treat you belong to community, and use your appearance in hidden ads as "just another consumer choose A.. products". Even if you will intentionally hide all logos of A.. from A.. products u use, their design is very distinctive and widely known, so even looking on Xiaomi most people will think it is A.. Plus, A.. products usually deep integrated into their infrastructure, I mean A.. Wi-fi router, A.. printer, A.. speakers, A.. interfaces (Lightning), etc.
- DetectDefect 10mo ago
  Simple market economics, really: the more people sell their Apple computer, the more supply there is, ergo its value will decrease, and the relative value of the brand with it. You are doing the inverse of this.