3 ms·

Very much agree. I would have no expectation of getting anything back, and people travel with some of their most important items: passports, visas, credit cards

Very much agree. I would have no expectation of getting anything back, and people travel with some of their most important items: passports, visas, credit cards, laptops, phones. Unless I actually think I'm going to die, i.e. if it feels like it's more cautionary, I'd be very tempted to grab my essentials. Trust is absolutely the thing that needs to be built. Trust that I'm going to be taken care of, trust that I'm not going to have visa issues without any ID, trust that I'm going to be compensated, fast, if I don't get my expensive possessions back.

mmooss 10mo ago
If you want trust, in any situation, it starts with you: Be trustworthy; lead others and set an example. > Unless I actually think I'm going to die ... I think those are the situations they are talking about.
- chiefalchemist 10mo ago
  The key to understanding trust It’s earned. Full stop. If it’s not earned, it’s not trust.
- danpalmer 10mo ago
  I see your point, I do agree that it's best to go into any situation assuming good faith. The problem is that the airline industry and those sorts of big corporations have already proven that they do not generally act in good faith (at least in the countries I have experience with – UK, AU, US). They have already lost the trust and the responsibility is on them to rebuild it.
  - mmooss 10mo ago
    While I agree the airlines are untrustworthy, when passengers are evacuating a plane, the airline industry, the CEO, etc. are not there. It's just the passengers, and it's up to the people there to create trust. The idea that it's ok to risk life and limb for possessions, because the airline hasn't been trustworthy, seems to me to be part of the trend of absurd victimhood and its omnipresent flip side, lack of personal responsibility. If I risk life and limb for posssessions, that's on me and me only.
cge 10mo ago
Even in emergency situations, the idea that the best outcome for passengers is achieved when they leave everything behind does involve placing trust in the crew and the authorities around the situation. If you're in a situation where that trust is no longer there, ignoring rules and going for a bag can make sense, which is one of the reasons why that trust is important. I'd prefer not to go into extensive detail, but I was once a passenger involved in a shipwreck where I did not trust the crew or the country we were in, and it was a somewhat similar situation of needing to get off the ship immediately, with the implication that everything should be left behind. Disregarding that and instead grabbing my small backpack with a satellite phone and cell phone, a GPS system and camera, my passport, a jacket, and similar items was, in hindsight, a very good decision. Without that bag, we would have been in a very sketchy situation, entirely under the control of the crew and shipowner, in a corrupt country where the shipowner was well-connected. Depending on the situation, it's not necessarily a matter of compensation for expensive possessions. Do you have any means of outside communication that isn't controlled by a group that might not have your best interests in mind? Do you have any alternative (eg, communication, documentation, or means of payment) if they decide to make your treatment dependent on what you are willing to sign, or if they decide to simply abandon you, or worse? Even during the emergency itself: is the emergency equipment that is supposed to be there going to be there? Is it going to be functional? Do you trust the crew to actually help you? With all that said: going for an overhead bag in an emergency on a plane is ridiculous and dangerous; if something is so critical, it would make more sense to have it in a pocket (to be fully compliant), or at least immediately accessible in a small bag.
- devilbunny 10mo ago
  I keep the really important stuff in a travel wallet. It's about as high as a letter/A4 piece of paper is wide, it holds some money and passports, and I could throw my cell phone in it. The rest of the stuff can be tossed, but that's going with me. Keep an eye out for one - the long ones are not easy to find, and the company that made mine is out of business. Example: https://www.leatherology.com/products/zip-around-travel-wallet-black-onyx https://www.leatherology.com/products/zip-around-travel-wall... (no knowledge about the company or the product, just what I found with a quick search).

mmooss 10mo ago

If you want trust, in any situation, it starts with you: Be trustworthy; lead others and set an example. > Unless I actually think I'm going to die ... I think those are the situations they are talking about.

chiefalchemist 10mo ago
The key to understanding trust It’s earned. Full stop. If it’s not earned, it’s not trust.
danpalmer 10mo ago
I see your point, I do agree that it's best to go into any situation assuming good faith. The problem is that the airline industry and those sorts of big corporations have already proven that they do not generally act in good faith (at least in the countries I have experience with – UK, AU, US). They have already lost the trust and the responsibility is on them to rebuild it.
- mmooss 10mo ago
  While I agree the airlines are untrustworthy, when passengers are evacuating a plane, the airline industry, the CEO, etc. are not there. It's just the passengers, and it's up to the people there to create trust. The idea that it's ok to risk life and limb for possessions, because the airline hasn't been trustworthy, seems to me to be part of the trend of absurd victimhood and its omnipresent flip side, lack of personal responsibility. If I risk life and limb for posssessions, that's on me and me only.

cge 10mo ago

Even in emergency situations, the idea that the best outcome for passengers is achieved when they leave everything behind does involve placing trust in the crew and the authorities around the situation. If you're in a situation where that trust is no longer there, ignoring rules and going for a bag can make sense, which is one of the reasons why that trust is important. I'd prefer not to go into extensive detail, but I was once a passenger involved in a shipwreck where I did not trust the crew or the country we were in, and it was a somewhat similar situation of needing to get off the ship immediately, with the implication that everything should be left behind. Disregarding that and instead grabbing my small backpack with a satellite phone and cell phone, a GPS system and camera, my passport, a jacket, and similar items was, in hindsight, a very good decision. Without that bag, we would have been in a very sketchy situation, entirely under the control of the crew and shipowner, in a corrupt country where the shipowner was well-connected. Depending on the situation, it's not necessarily a matter of compensation for expensive possessions. Do you have any means of outside communication that isn't controlled by a group that might not have your best interests in mind? Do you have any alternative (eg, communication, documentation, or means of payment) if they decide to make your treatment dependent on what you are willing to sign, or if they decide to simply abandon you, or worse? Even during the emergency itself: is the emergency equipment that is supposed to be there going to be there? Is it going to be functional? Do you trust the crew to actually help you? With all that said: going for an overhead bag in an emergency on a plane is ridiculous and dangerous; if something is so critical, it would make more sense to have it in a pocket (to be fully compliant), or at least immediately accessible in a small bag.

devilbunny 10mo ago
I keep the really important stuff in a travel wallet. It's about as high as a letter/A4 piece of paper is wide, it holds some money and passports, and I could throw my cell phone in it. The rest of the stuff can be tossed, but that's going with me. Keep an eye out for one - the long ones are not easy to find, and the company that made mine is out of business. Example: https://www.leatherology.com/products/zip-around-travel-wallet-black-onyx https://www.leatherology.com/products/zip-around-travel-wall... (no knowledge about the company or the product, just what I found with a quick search).