4 ms·

Airlines call in psychologists to stop passengers risking their lives for bags

22 points by pseudolus 10mo ago

pseudolus 10mo ago
https://archive.is/2so4c https://archive.is/2so4c
Lammy 10mo ago
> it hasn’t resulted in deaths
- avemg 10mo ago
  Do we need to wait for a tragedy before we do something? Good on the airlines and regulators for recognizing a burgeoning problem and taking action before (hopefully) it leads to unnecessary deaths.
  - Lammy 10mo ago
    > Do we need to wait for a tragedy before we do something? Yes, absolutely. It isn't pleasant to think about, but laws and regulations are meaningless if they aren't based on actual numbers. If I wanted to propose some new feature at work, people would understandably want to see some numbers and not just “feels nice” lol
    - mordechai9000 10mo ago
      People have died during fires on the tarmac while trying to evacuate. Every second saved could mean another person lives.
hlieberman 10mo ago
If there is an aircraft evacuation and someone is getting their bag out of the carry-on, the proper response is punching them in the face and throwing them onto the ground so people can step over (or on) them. With seat pitches so tight these days, the idea that an evacuation can be done by unprepared people in 90 seconds is a pipedream, even before taking into consideration people trying to get their luggage.
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
  > the proper response is punching them in the face and throwing them onto the ground so people can step over (or on) them The proper response to anyone doing this is jail time and a flight ban. The person with a bag delayed everyone by seconds. The person having an emotional breakdown will cost folks minutes.
immibis 10mo ago
Is it not simple? Tell the passengers they'll be able to get their bags back during an emergency. Don't just say "leave your bags" - say "leave your bags, you'll get them back later". After drilling into passengers nonstop to never leave their bags unattended is it any surprise passengers don't leave their bags unattended? No, it isn't.
- mmooss 10mo ago
  Lives are at stake; it doesn't matter if you get your bags back and that isn't hard to understand. Also, if the plane is on fire, you're probably not getting them back. > After drilling into passengers nonstop to never leave their bags unattended is it any surprise passengers don't leave their bags unattended? That's while going to your flight in an airport. I don't think anyone confuses the situations.
Natfan 10mo ago
it doesn't surprise me in the least that Japanese passengers are the most likely to be safe, and USAmericans are the least likely
andy99 10mo ago
> Japanese passengers “are going to get out of the aircraft,” Mr Careen said, while travellers in North America appear most likely to delay evacuating to retrieve their belongings. I’d speculate that Japanese passengers expect to promptly get their stuff back while North Americans know they are effectively throwing it in the garbage, and so are more tempted to grab a few things. I don’t think people should grab their bags in an emergency, but it’s amazing to me that airlines act like they can’t even understand why people do. It feels like common sense about a low trust society, and airlines do nothing whatsoever to engender trust otherwise.
- mmooss 10mo ago
  > Japanese passengers expect to promptly get their stuff back while North Americans know they are effectively throwing it in the garbage If the plane has crashed and people are fleeing for their lives, I doubt people expect to get their bags back.
- whimsicalism 10mo ago
  i would bet you they would still not grab bags even if they had no credible reason to think they would get it back.a significant minority of Americans are quite selfish/individualistic
- danpalmer 10mo ago
  Very much agree. I would have no expectation of getting anything back, and people travel with some of their most important items: passports, visas, credit cards, laptops, phones. Unless I actually think I'm going to die, i.e. if it feels like it's more cautionary, I'd be very tempted to grab my essentials. Trust is absolutely the thing that needs to be built. Trust that I'm going to be taken care of, trust that I'm not going to have visa issues without any ID, trust that I'm going to be compensated, fast, if I don't get my expensive possessions back.
  - mmooss 10mo ago
    If you want trust, in any situation, it starts with you: Be trustworthy; lead others and set an example. > Unless I actually think I'm going to die ... I think those are the situations they are talking about.
mmooss 10mo ago
Aren't they risking everyone else's lives by blocking the aisle? It could be made a serious crime - it's easy to see who keeps their bags. Lock the overheads? Maybe that will cause delay if people who keep trying. Also, the same people probably take their under-seat bags. I wonder if that causes delay - maybe it takes up space in the aisle, which would seem to be a bottleneck.
- exabrial 10mo ago
  Agree, If you're caught running with a bag from a plane (as we've seen on video): zero eligibility for "survivor benefits", $50,000 fine for endangerment, plus 100% liability for any injuries of those behind you.
exabrial 10mo ago
You have something like 45s-90s to get off an airplane and sprint for your life, I've heard. (If anyone has a source, post it). Keep your phone, passport, and your keys in your pockets, and your shoes on your feet during taxi, takeoff, landing. Do not wear flip flops on airlines (you can't run in them) and they provide zero fire protection if you have to run across flaming ground. Everything is replaceable. I hope it never comes to it, but I would absolutely "move" a person towards the exit, if needed, if they stopped to get their bag, only to save the lives of everyone else.
- mmooss 10mo ago
  I think the article says the goal is evacuation in 90 seconds with half the exits available, but that it hasn't been achieved yet.
teeray 10mo ago
Put some kind of deadbolt in there that seals the overhead compartments if the pilot declares an evacuation.
- avidiax 10mo ago
  Don't make this an emergency-only thing. It needs to be every flight during takeoff and landing. Otherwise people will be confused why they can't open the bin during evacuation and fight with the attendants, etc. A more comprehensive set of policy changes: * All tickets required to include one checked bag in the fare. Less pressure on overhead bin space and less tendency to have one big bag instead of a personal item with important documents. * Overhead bins lock during takeoff and landing. And it needs to be a sturdy lock, not something that a lunatic can pry open and entice the entire plane into trying to break their stuff out. * Fine passengers that take luggage during an evacuation. $5k + the value of the item. That makes it so that even people with valuables should leave them behind. And people complaining about their $5200 fine will be mocked for risking everyone's lives for $200. * Evacuation tests for new seating arrangements must assume that all personal items and accessible overhead items will be taken unless that is rendered impossible by policy or locks.
mmooss 10mo ago
Does anyone know what the research says? I found a few things, but I don't know if they represent the consensus, etc. Maybe it's in airline regulations somewhere? For example, https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Pages/DCA00SS002.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Pages/DCA00SS002.... https://trid.trb.org/View/2570651 https://trid.trb.org/View/2570651 https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/aeromedical/cabinsafety/evacuation https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/aer...
- avidiax 10mo ago
  According to [1], this problem has been known about since at least 2000. More than half of people will retrieve their luggage when evacuating. They were discussing a verbal announcement during the safety briefing. I get the feeling that we are just waiting for some new regulations written in blood. [1] https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS0001.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS0001....
bombcar 10mo ago
Just Joker it - two flights to each destination, but your bags are on the other flight. Nobody’s risking their life for someone else’s bag.
- xuhu 10mo ago
  Oh god, this is what they'll implement eventually. Each passenger will have to put their bag 15 rows down from their seat.
- yongjik 10mo ago
  Easy, Satan.
crmd 10mo ago
I’m not a fan of nanny-state policies, but I would support a law that imposes grave consequences for airline passengers found to be in possession of personal baggage following an evacuation. Because seconds count and lives are on the line, passengers should be trained to treat baggage as if it is radioactive during an evacuation.
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
  > would support a law that imposes grave consequences for airline passengers found to be in possession of personal baggage following an evacuation My preference would be for a massive fine and one-year flight ban for the first offence, and triple that fine plus one year in jail plus lifetime for a second offence. In all cases, you’re personally responsible for your injuries and those of anyone behind you.
- ironmagma 10mo ago
  If dying doesn't stop them, fear of punishment by law won't either. That's if they even know about the law.
- kyboren 10mo ago
  No need for grave consequences, just mandate the destruction of any personal baggage after an evacuation and add a hefty fine to boot. If it's all gonna get destroyed no matter what, there's no reason even to try to take anything with you.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
nacozarina 10mo ago
Govt: Don’t put critical medications in checked bags, put them in carry on. Oh and have your citizenship papers available at any time for inspection. Same Govt: omg why are you acting like your carryon matters?
plagiarist 10mo ago
The introduction of the baggage fee means more travelers will carry their suitcases. Without that, they might not have the opportunity to grab their bags.
lobito25 10mo ago
[dead]

22 points by pseudolus 10mo ago

pseudolus 10mo ago

https://archive.is/2so4c https://archive.is/2so4c

Lammy 10mo ago

> it hasn’t resulted in deaths

avemg 10mo ago
Do we need to wait for a tragedy before we do something? Good on the airlines and regulators for recognizing a burgeoning problem and taking action before (hopefully) it leads to unnecessary deaths.
- Lammy 10mo ago
  > Do we need to wait for a tragedy before we do something? Yes, absolutely. It isn't pleasant to think about, but laws and regulations are meaningless if they aren't based on actual numbers. If I wanted to propose some new feature at work, people would understandably want to see some numbers and not just “feels nice” lol
  - mordechai9000 10mo ago
    People have died during fires on the tarmac while trying to evacuate. Every second saved could mean another person lives.

hlieberman 10mo ago

If there is an aircraft evacuation and someone is getting their bag out of the carry-on, the proper response is punching them in the face and throwing them onto the ground so people can step over (or on) them. With seat pitches so tight these days, the idea that an evacuation can be done by unprepared people in 90 seconds is a pipedream, even before taking into consideration people trying to get their luggage.

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> the proper response is punching them in the face and throwing them onto the ground so people can step over (or on) them The proper response to anyone doing this is jail time and a flight ban. The person with a bag delayed everyone by seconds. The person having an emotional breakdown will cost folks minutes.

immibis 10mo ago

Is it not simple? Tell the passengers they'll be able to get their bags back during an emergency. Don't just say "leave your bags" - say "leave your bags, you'll get them back later". After drilling into passengers nonstop to never leave their bags unattended is it any surprise passengers don't leave their bags unattended? No, it isn't.

mmooss 10mo ago
Lives are at stake; it doesn't matter if you get your bags back and that isn't hard to understand. Also, if the plane is on fire, you're probably not getting them back. > After drilling into passengers nonstop to never leave their bags unattended is it any surprise passengers don't leave their bags unattended? That's while going to your flight in an airport. I don't think anyone confuses the situations.

Natfan 10mo ago

it doesn't surprise me in the least that Japanese passengers are the most likely to be safe, and USAmericans are the least likely

andy99 10mo ago

> Japanese passengers “are going to get out of the aircraft,” Mr Careen said, while travellers in North America appear most likely to delay evacuating to retrieve their belongings. I’d speculate that Japanese passengers expect to promptly get their stuff back while North Americans know they are effectively throwing it in the garbage, and so are more tempted to grab a few things. I don’t think people should grab their bags in an emergency, but it’s amazing to me that airlines act like they can’t even understand why people do. It feels like common sense about a low trust society, and airlines do nothing whatsoever to engender trust otherwise.

mmooss 10mo ago
> Japanese passengers expect to promptly get their stuff back while North Americans know they are effectively throwing it in the garbage If the plane has crashed and people are fleeing for their lives, I doubt people expect to get their bags back.
whimsicalism 10mo ago
i would bet you they would still not grab bags even if they had no credible reason to think they would get it back.a significant minority of Americans are quite selfish/individualistic
danpalmer 10mo ago
Very much agree. I would have no expectation of getting anything back, and people travel with some of their most important items: passports, visas, credit cards, laptops, phones. Unless I actually think I'm going to die, i.e. if it feels like it's more cautionary, I'd be very tempted to grab my essentials. Trust is absolutely the thing that needs to be built. Trust that I'm going to be taken care of, trust that I'm not going to have visa issues without any ID, trust that I'm going to be compensated, fast, if I don't get my expensive possessions back.
- mmooss 10mo ago
  If you want trust, in any situation, it starts with you: Be trustworthy; lead others and set an example. > Unless I actually think I'm going to die ... I think those are the situations they are talking about.

mmooss 10mo ago

Aren't they risking everyone else's lives by blocking the aisle? It could be made a serious crime - it's easy to see who keeps their bags. Lock the overheads? Maybe that will cause delay if people who keep trying. Also, the same people probably take their under-seat bags. I wonder if that causes delay - maybe it takes up space in the aisle, which would seem to be a bottleneck.

exabrial 10mo ago
Agree, If you're caught running with a bag from a plane (as we've seen on video): zero eligibility for "survivor benefits", $50,000 fine for endangerment, plus 100% liability for any injuries of those behind you.

exabrial 10mo ago

You have something like 45s-90s to get off an airplane and sprint for your life, I've heard. (If anyone has a source, post it). Keep your phone, passport, and your keys in your pockets, and your shoes on your feet during taxi, takeoff, landing. Do not wear flip flops on airlines (you can't run in them) and they provide zero fire protection if you have to run across flaming ground. Everything is replaceable. I hope it never comes to it, but I would absolutely "move" a person towards the exit, if needed, if they stopped to get their bag, only to save the lives of everyone else.

mmooss 10mo ago
I think the article says the goal is evacuation in 90 seconds with half the exits available, but that it hasn't been achieved yet.

teeray 10mo ago

Put some kind of deadbolt in there that seals the overhead compartments if the pilot declares an evacuation.

avidiax 10mo ago
Don't make this an emergency-only thing. It needs to be every flight during takeoff and landing. Otherwise people will be confused why they can't open the bin during evacuation and fight with the attendants, etc. A more comprehensive set of policy changes: * All tickets required to include one checked bag in the fare. Less pressure on overhead bin space and less tendency to have one big bag instead of a personal item with important documents. * Overhead bins lock during takeoff and landing. And it needs to be a sturdy lock, not something that a lunatic can pry open and entice the entire plane into trying to break their stuff out. * Fine passengers that take luggage during an evacuation. $5k + the value of the item. That makes it so that even people with valuables should leave them behind. And people complaining about their $5200 fine will be mocked for risking everyone's lives for $200. * Evacuation tests for new seating arrangements must assume that all personal items and accessible overhead items will be taken unless that is rendered impossible by policy or locks.

mmooss 10mo ago

Does anyone know what the research says? I found a few things, but I don't know if they represent the consensus, etc. Maybe it's in airline regulations somewhere? For example, https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Pages/DCA00SS002.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Pages/DCA00SS002.... https://trid.trb.org/View/2570651 https://trid.trb.org/View/2570651 https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/aeromedical/cabinsafety/evacuation https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/aer...

avidiax 10mo ago
According to [1], this problem has been known about since at least 2000. More than half of people will retrieve their luggage when evacuating. They were discussing a verbal announcement during the safety briefing. I get the feeling that we are just waiting for some new regulations written in blood. [1] https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS0001.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS0001....

bombcar 10mo ago

Just Joker it - two flights to each destination, but your bags are on the other flight. Nobody’s risking their life for someone else’s bag.

xuhu 10mo ago
Oh god, this is what they'll implement eventually. Each passenger will have to put their bag 15 rows down from their seat.
yongjik 10mo ago
Easy, Satan.

crmd 10mo ago

I’m not a fan of nanny-state policies, but I would support a law that imposes grave consequences for airline passengers found to be in possession of personal baggage following an evacuation. Because seconds count and lives are on the line, passengers should be trained to treat baggage as if it is radioactive during an evacuation.

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> would support a law that imposes grave consequences for airline passengers found to be in possession of personal baggage following an evacuation My preference would be for a massive fine and one-year flight ban for the first offence, and triple that fine plus one year in jail plus lifetime for a second offence. In all cases, you’re personally responsible for your injuries and those of anyone behind you.
ironmagma 10mo ago
If dying doesn't stop them, fear of punishment by law won't either. That's if they even know about the law.
kyboren 10mo ago
No need for grave consequences, just mandate the destruction of any personal baggage after an evacuation and add a hefty fine to boot. If it's all gonna get destroyed no matter what, there's no reason even to try to take anything with you.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

nacozarina 10mo ago

Govt: Don’t put critical medications in checked bags, put them in carry on. Oh and have your citizenship papers available at any time for inspection. Same Govt: omg why are you acting like your carryon matters?

plagiarist 10mo ago

The introduction of the baggage fee means more travelers will carry their suitcases. Without that, they might not have the opportunity to grab their bags.

lobito25 10mo ago

[dead]