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Wouldn’t fast efficient light rail been generally better? From a social and economic perspective it would be more efficient. The real problem with that only ten

Wouldn’t fast efficient light rail been generally better? From a social and economic perspective it would be more efficient. The real problem with that only tends to be political, namely there is a strange aversion to properly built public infrastructure

krapp 10mo ago
>there is a strange aversion to properly built public infrastructure It costs money which taxpayers don't want to pay (unless it benefits them personally,) it requires long term planning which governments are incapable of, and it smells like socialism.
Mountain_Skies 10mo ago
In the medical scenario, having medical workers sit around waiting for the train after they've driven to the station would be a problem if their presence is needed quickly. Or did you also want everyone to cram into high rises clustered around stations?
- zahlman 10mo ago
  The point is that use of public transit by ordinary people helps free up the road for EMS vehicles.
  - fuzzfactor 10mo ago
    What I see on the rail in Houston are health-care workers and office people, but looks like very few doctors or executives.
- venturecruelty 10mo ago
  Idk, man, Europe and like... half of Asia seem to have figured this out, and their healthcare outcomes are better. But sure, this contrived pro-car scenario is why trains don't work.
infecto 10mo ago
I think effective light rail is really hard to get right in the US. Think about Houston, its already a a massive asphalt parking lot nightmare, its not very walk-able, it gets hot and humid in the summer. It simply won't work in most of the US. This is not a build it and they will come situation.
- BunsanSpace 10mo ago
  > its not very walk-able, it gets hot and humid in the summer. You Americans are so funny. Japan is hotter and more humid yet public transit and walking are not an issue. Taipei similar story, rapidly building out rail in a hotter place. You build the rail, then upzome the areas around stations and over time those giant ashfault lots go away and become urban centres.
  - infecto 10mo ago
    > You Americans are so funny. People like you are funny too but its easy to make posts like yours. Density in most urban parts of Japan and Taipei are wildly higher than say a Houston Texas. Again like I said, you are oversimplifying the problem which I get it, its easy to do. I don't think this is as simple as "build the rail, then upzone the area around stations", would happy to be wrong but I think like all of the world there are cultural and historical reasons for the difference. It would take decades, you need buy in from both tax payers, commercial buildings, retail spaces, home builders etc. It would be great if you could have a central planner like a China to just build a city with all the infrastructure in place but in places like America, that does not happen and so its a very tough egg to crack. Keep in mind its not just about being hot, definitely lots of Japan and Taiwan are very humid but you are also in city centers that have 8-9x the density of Houston. Lots of things to do and often you are most likely not walking that far, relative for city walking. I could walk a mile in Houston and still have not left my starting spot.
  - rascul 10mo ago
    > Japan is hotter Is it? https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/9247~143809/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Houston-and-Tokyo https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/9247~143809/Comparison-of...
BurningFrog 10mo ago
A car can go from anywhere to anywhere else at any time. A rail system, no matter how fast and efficient, can never get close to matching that.
- mcntsh 10mo ago
  you only think that because a bunch of roads were constructed for cars
- stephenbez 10mo ago
  I live in NYC and for the majority of my trips the subway gets me there faster than a car would. Sure you can find plenty of random places it would take longer for me to get to by train, but for places I actually want to get to, the subway is faster.
  - mpyne 10mo ago
    OK, you live in the one and only city in the entire USA that is dense enough to make the subway a better option. I live in the DC area which has an excellent Metrorail system, and it is still nowhere near close enough to being able to replace the average trip by car unless you in DC proper. Now imagine how much worse things would be in Houston.
    - estearum 10mo ago
      > OK, you live in the one and only city in the entire USA that is dense enough to make the subway a better option. Spoiler: All of them should be this way
      - mpyne 9mo ago
        You're welcome to try to Trail of Tears everybody into your preferred walled cities, but the attempt would go badly for you. Absent that we'll need to wait for population growth (not happening, if anything we're going the other way) or immigration (ha) to fill our cities up to NYC density. Note that NYC itself used to be even more dense than it is today. No other U.S. city is likely to reach even NYC's current density in any near- to medium-time scale.
fooker 10mo ago
No, a doctor is not getting to you on a fast efficient light rail in an emergency.
whimsicalism 10mo ago
i am pro-rail and also pro toll/congestion pricing. i think we need to be realistic that rail is not a solution to all of our problems, and also not really feasible in many parts of the US until we fix the union+environmental review problem.

krapp 10mo ago

>there is a strange aversion to properly built public infrastructure It costs money which taxpayers don't want to pay (unless it benefits them personally,) it requires long term planning which governments are incapable of, and it smells like socialism.

Mountain_Skies 10mo ago

In the medical scenario, having medical workers sit around waiting for the train after they've driven to the station would be a problem if their presence is needed quickly. Or did you also want everyone to cram into high rises clustered around stations?

zahlman 10mo ago
The point is that use of public transit by ordinary people helps free up the road for EMS vehicles.
- fuzzfactor 10mo ago
  What I see on the rail in Houston are health-care workers and office people, but looks like very few doctors or executives.
venturecruelty 10mo ago
Idk, man, Europe and like... half of Asia seem to have figured this out, and their healthcare outcomes are better. But sure, this contrived pro-car scenario is why trains don't work.

infecto 10mo ago

I think effective light rail is really hard to get right in the US. Think about Houston, its already a a massive asphalt parking lot nightmare, its not very walk-able, it gets hot and humid in the summer. It simply won't work in most of the US. This is not a build it and they will come situation.

BunsanSpace 10mo ago
> its not very walk-able, it gets hot and humid in the summer. You Americans are so funny. Japan is hotter and more humid yet public transit and walking are not an issue. Taipei similar story, rapidly building out rail in a hotter place. You build the rail, then upzome the areas around stations and over time those giant ashfault lots go away and become urban centres.
- infecto 10mo ago
  > You Americans are so funny. People like you are funny too but its easy to make posts like yours. Density in most urban parts of Japan and Taipei are wildly higher than say a Houston Texas. Again like I said, you are oversimplifying the problem which I get it, its easy to do. I don't think this is as simple as "build the rail, then upzone the area around stations", would happy to be wrong but I think like all of the world there are cultural and historical reasons for the difference. It would take decades, you need buy in from both tax payers, commercial buildings, retail spaces, home builders etc. It would be great if you could have a central planner like a China to just build a city with all the infrastructure in place but in places like America, that does not happen and so its a very tough egg to crack. Keep in mind its not just about being hot, definitely lots of Japan and Taiwan are very humid but you are also in city centers that have 8-9x the density of Houston. Lots of things to do and often you are most likely not walking that far, relative for city walking. I could walk a mile in Houston and still have not left my starting spot.
- rascul 10mo ago
  > Japan is hotter Is it? https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/9247~143809/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Houston-and-Tokyo https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/9247~143809/Comparison-of...

BurningFrog 10mo ago

A car can go from anywhere to anywhere else at any time. A rail system, no matter how fast and efficient, can never get close to matching that.

mcntsh 10mo ago
you only think that because a bunch of roads were constructed for cars
stephenbez 10mo ago
I live in NYC and for the majority of my trips the subway gets me there faster than a car would. Sure you can find plenty of random places it would take longer for me to get to by train, but for places I actually want to get to, the subway is faster.
- mpyne 10mo ago
  OK, you live in the one and only city in the entire USA that is dense enough to make the subway a better option. I live in the DC area which has an excellent Metrorail system, and it is still nowhere near close enough to being able to replace the average trip by car unless you in DC proper. Now imagine how much worse things would be in Houston.
  - estearum 10mo ago
    > OK, you live in the one and only city in the entire USA that is dense enough to make the subway a better option. Spoiler: All of them should be this way
    - mpyne 9mo ago
      You're welcome to try to Trail of Tears everybody into your preferred walled cities, but the attempt would go badly for you. Absent that we'll need to wait for population growth (not happening, if anything we're going the other way) or immigration (ha) to fill our cities up to NYC density. Note that NYC itself used to be even more dense than it is today. No other U.S. city is likely to reach even NYC's current density in any near- to medium-time scale.

fooker 10mo ago

No, a doctor is not getting to you on a fast efficient light rail in an emergency.

whimsicalism 10mo ago

i am pro-rail and also pro toll/congestion pricing. i think we need to be realistic that rail is not a solution to all of our problems, and also not really feasible in many parts of the US until we fix the union+environmental review problem.