4 ms·

How We Found Out About COINTELPRO (2014)

91 points by bryanrasmussen 10mo ago

Natfan 10mo ago
i find it interesting that the later actions that Davidson did would be considered "terrorism" under the UK government's legal framework regarding Palestine Action
java-man 10mo ago
Nothing changed.
caseysoftware 10mo ago
> On June 25, 1971, one Robert Hardy appeared at the FBI office in Camden, New Jersey and told agents of a plan by several of his friends to raid the draft board in that city, remove the files, and destroy them. Hardy was one of the gang, but changed his mind. He was immediately hired as an informer and told to return to the gang and report on their plans, which he did. On August 22, the FBI was waiting when the group struck, and twenty-eight were arrested. The trial began on February 5, 1973. Hoover died in May 1972, but his ghost must have suffered a shock as Hardy changed his mind again and became a witness for the defense. He told the truth, namely that the FBI had used him as a provocateur, and that the burglary could not have taken place without him and the burglary tools that the FBI had supplied. What are the odds the FBI has done this more recently than 1971?
- rekttrader 10mo ago
  It is a fair assumption that they do this regularly, politics aside one should ask why were there so many FBI agents at the Jan 6 debacle and why didn’t they do more to quell the violence. The origins of Ruby Ridge and Waco are fine examples of insanity. Nevertheless inciting crime and capturing bad guys seems like a game they like playing.
  - was8309 10mo ago
    "...so many FBI agents at the Jan 6" citation? thanks
    - caseysoftware 10mo ago
      According to the FBI: > The after-action responses – 50 pages in all – were located by current FBI Director Kash Patel’s team and recently turned over to the House Judiciary Committee and its special subcommittee investigating security failures and weaponization of law enforcement during the Jan. 6 riot. > The document has proven a bombshell to lawmakers, revealing for the first time that the FBI had a total of 274 agents deployed to the Capitol in plainclothes and with guns after the violence started but with no clear safety gear of way to be recognized by other law enforcement agencies working in the chaos of the riot. https://justthenews.com/accountability/fbi-bombshell-274-agents-sent-capitol-j6-many-later-complained-they-were-political https://justthenews.com/accountability/fbi-bombshell-274-age...
      - jazzyjackson 10mo ago
        You can't believe "just the news dot com" is a reputable source can you? The documents don't mention or imply the officers were plainclothes, it's a lie, that number is regular agents deployed after violence had occurred. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fbi-275-agents-jan-6/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fbi-275-agents-jan-6/
        caseysoftware 10mo ago
        The claim from the post above was "why were there so many FBI agents at the Jan 6 debacle" and the response asked for a source. If you consider the response to the violence part of "the Jan 6 debacle", then yes, FBI agents were present. The documents would NOT specify they were in "plainclothes" because the FBI doesn't wear uniforms, therefore everything would be "plainclothes" by definition. This is both common knowledge but I can personally confirm from my time there. You can dislike the characterization but it is correct. The more interesting questions: - Since the FBI primarily an investigative body (in the name) and these were NOT tacteams providing armed support, what was their purpose? - Further, why did it take almost 5 years for the FBI to identify the man placing the pipebombs? According to reports, no new evidence came to light.
- stinkbeetle 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - therobots927 10mo ago
    No self respecting liberal would believe such a thing.
  - konmok 10mo ago
    The problem with this thinking is that the US government regularly engages in actual conspiracies, which the public only finds out about much later. COINTELPRO, MKULTRA, the Tuskegee experiments, Operation Paperclip, the list goes on [1]. So, while it's true that the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theories are dumb nonsense, it remains unwise to dismiss a theory just because it is a "conspiracy theory". [1] This is almost certainly true of other governments as well! I'm just less informed there.
    - therobots927 10mo ago
      Am I crazy or was the parent being sarcastic? I know it’s hard to tell but it read that way to me
      - DonHopkins 10mo ago
        You're not crazy. The parent poster stinkbeetle is incoherently angry, he has no self respect or beliefs, there is no signal in his noise, he's being obstreperous and incomprehensible on purpose, he histrionically tries to play the victim of verbal violence when challenged on his racism, and becomes unhinged when asked to explain his own point. He's just another adolescent attention starved edgelord troll. For proof, just set showdead=true and read his comment history. Pity him, for he's having a terrible Festivus. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=stinkbeetle https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=stinkbeetle
        stinkbeetle 10mo ago
        You've become completely unhinged, you pathetic boomer, because I mildly poked fun at your secular-religion. What are you even doing you poor simpleton? Not even your fellow adherents to the faith are impressed by your mega tantrum. Time to re-evaluate your life choices.
- jordanb 10mo ago
  Most of the "foiled lone wolf Islamic attacks" in the US were planned by the FBI. They'd find some kid, radicalize him, recruit him, supply him with dummy weapons, plan a terrorist attack for him to carry out, then arrest him for it.
  - hugh-avherald 10mo ago
    Here's an Australian example: https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-01/CDPP%20v%20Carrick%20%28a%20pseudonym%29%20%5B2023%5D%20ChCV%202.pdf https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/20... [PDF] or https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/file/cdpp-v-carrick-pseudonym-2023-vchc-2 https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/file/cdpp-v-carrick-ps...
anonymars 10mo ago
"Why don't Americans protest?", everyone wonders... Edit to clarify: perhaps the various sentiments described in the replies didn't come about entirely organically
- kelseyfrog 10mo ago
  I had a conversation about this with my French teacher a few months ago It was striking how different our outlooks were on the effectiveness of protests. Her position was that together, she and her fellow protesters _could_ enact change. When I look around, the stench of preconsigned defeat permeates the space. We've lived in it for so long that we've become blind to it. We've learned to be helpless. Not to mention, when a fresh face inevitably proposes large scale action, the responses always include FUD about needing to solve the poverty issue first so that participants can even attend such action. The end result is that it's stopped at the idea stage, nothing changes, and six months later a new freah face will repeat the cycle. Part of the issue is that without social safety nets, much of the public is afraid that missing a week to a month of work will guarantee them homelessness.
  - antonymoose 10mo ago
    I feel like, historically, protests have beared fruit in America for leftist / progressive causes. Everything from Suffragettes and Civil Rights / anti-Vietnam to the Floyd protests of the modern day. Maybe they didn’t overthrow an entire government but the marked forward progress of each one is clear.
    - asveikau 10mo ago
      I feel there is currently a bit of of internalized propaganda about protests being stupid or worse. Witness any cause which involves protesting by blocking the street. You get an army of internet trolls talking up the idea that this is somehow evil. In the civil rights era, events like crossing bridges on foot were a key feature, done by people like Martin Luther King. In the modern era, if you see a protest on the golden gate bridge as an example, they'll be called terrorists and people will advocate for violence against them.
beeburrt 10mo ago
It evolved into gangstalking via fusion centers contrary to Wikipedia's claim that it's mAsS dElUsIoN which is obviously false to anyone who's done more than a cursory look into it. Look up NSA whistleblower Karen Stewart and also watch the tragic video of Myron May who gives an accurate description of their tactics. Ask me how I know.
- rekttrader 10mo ago
  Please share, new rabbit holes are the best rabbit holes.
  - superb-owl 10mo ago
    This is not a good rabbit hole
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
  - electroglyph 10mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_stalking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_stalking this sums it up nicely: "A study from Australia and the United Kingdom by Lorraine Sheridan and David James compared 128 self-defined victims of gang stalking with a randomly selected group of 128 self-declared victims of stalking by an individual. All 128 "victims" of gang stalking were judged to be delusional, compared with only 5 victims of individual stalking."
    - treebeard901 10mo ago
      Gang stalking has evolved to mean that people using the surveillance state, often bored people in Govt or law enforcement with a specific target (and false justification), will all work together against the target and do various things to them. It is meant to be done in a deniable way. Turns out that the same people involved in this also control the doctors and the medical system who can then make a determination that the target is delusional. After all, the doctors, medical professionals, etc all require licenses from the state to continue operating. This follows from Stasi like tactics developed in East Germany which mirror the methods used by COINTELPRO. The Stasi called it Zersetzung, or deconstruction. One difference is that the Stasi didn't have the massive surveillance state that exists today. They also required in person informants on other friends and family. A large portion of the population became informants and participated in the forms of Zersetzung against the states defined target. Now cell phones and online services, along with constant tracking and surveillance have replaced this need for human informants. They still exist of course, but are just not a requirement. Some of it is just bored, power tripping law enforcement agents or people in Govt with access to the surveillance state. Even with all the data brokers and sharing, it's possible for a reasonable wealthy person to do this without acting under the color of law. Hopefully the public will know more about these operations in the near future. The lying, rights violations and gaslighting is all uniquely un-American, and the public needs to hold the state accountable for it. EDIT: A lot of the YouTube videos about it seem to go off the deep end and include conspiracies like Havana Syndrome or other crazy stuff that does fall under mental illness. This allows actual gang stalking where 3 or more people rely on Govt authority and the surveillance state to target a specific person, usually with the goal to harm them in some way. Often not physically. More reputationally, and so on. Zersetzung was real. Much is known after the fall of the Stasi. It is happening in the U.S.

91 points by bryanrasmussen 10mo ago

Natfan 10mo ago

i find it interesting that the later actions that Davidson did would be considered "terrorism" under the UK government's legal framework regarding Palestine Action

java-man 10mo ago

Nothing changed.

caseysoftware 10mo ago

> On June 25, 1971, one Robert Hardy appeared at the FBI office in Camden, New Jersey and told agents of a plan by several of his friends to raid the draft board in that city, remove the files, and destroy them. Hardy was one of the gang, but changed his mind. He was immediately hired as an informer and told to return to the gang and report on their plans, which he did. On August 22, the FBI was waiting when the group struck, and twenty-eight were arrested. The trial began on February 5, 1973. Hoover died in May 1972, but his ghost must have suffered a shock as Hardy changed his mind again and became a witness for the defense. He told the truth, namely that the FBI had used him as a provocateur, and that the burglary could not have taken place without him and the burglary tools that the FBI had supplied. What are the odds the FBI has done this more recently than 1971?

rekttrader 10mo ago
It is a fair assumption that they do this regularly, politics aside one should ask why were there so many FBI agents at the Jan 6 debacle and why didn’t they do more to quell the violence. The origins of Ruby Ridge and Waco are fine examples of insanity. Nevertheless inciting crime and capturing bad guys seems like a game they like playing.
- was8309 10mo ago
  "...so many FBI agents at the Jan 6" citation? thanks
  - caseysoftware 10mo ago
    According to the FBI: > The after-action responses – 50 pages in all – were located by current FBI Director Kash Patel’s team and recently turned over to the House Judiciary Committee and its special subcommittee investigating security failures and weaponization of law enforcement during the Jan. 6 riot. > The document has proven a bombshell to lawmakers, revealing for the first time that the FBI had a total of 274 agents deployed to the Capitol in plainclothes and with guns after the violence started but with no clear safety gear of way to be recognized by other law enforcement agencies working in the chaos of the riot. https://justthenews.com/accountability/fbi-bombshell-274-agents-sent-capitol-j6-many-later-complained-they-were-political https://justthenews.com/accountability/fbi-bombshell-274-age...
    - jazzyjackson 10mo ago
      You can't believe "just the news dot com" is a reputable source can you? The documents don't mention or imply the officers were plainclothes, it's a lie, that number is regular agents deployed after violence had occurred. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fbi-275-agents-jan-6/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fbi-275-agents-jan-6/
      - caseysoftware 10mo ago
        The claim from the post above was "why were there so many FBI agents at the Jan 6 debacle" and the response asked for a source. If you consider the response to the violence part of "the Jan 6 debacle", then yes, FBI agents were present. The documents would NOT specify they were in "plainclothes" because the FBI doesn't wear uniforms, therefore everything would be "plainclothes" by definition. This is both common knowledge but I can personally confirm from my time there. You can dislike the characterization but it is correct. The more interesting questions: - Since the FBI primarily an investigative body (in the name) and these were NOT tacteams providing armed support, what was their purpose? - Further, why did it take almost 5 years for the FBI to identify the man placing the pipebombs? According to reports, no new evidence came to light.
stinkbeetle 10mo ago
[flagged]
- therobots927 10mo ago
  No self respecting liberal would believe such a thing.
- konmok 10mo ago
  The problem with this thinking is that the US government regularly engages in actual conspiracies, which the public only finds out about much later. COINTELPRO, MKULTRA, the Tuskegee experiments, Operation Paperclip, the list goes on [1]. So, while it's true that the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theories are dumb nonsense, it remains unwise to dismiss a theory just because it is a "conspiracy theory". [1] This is almost certainly true of other governments as well! I'm just less informed there.
  - therobots927 10mo ago
    Am I crazy or was the parent being sarcastic? I know it’s hard to tell but it read that way to me
    - DonHopkins 10mo ago
      You're not crazy. The parent poster stinkbeetle is incoherently angry, he has no self respect or beliefs, there is no signal in his noise, he's being obstreperous and incomprehensible on purpose, he histrionically tries to play the victim of verbal violence when challenged on his racism, and becomes unhinged when asked to explain his own point. He's just another adolescent attention starved edgelord troll. For proof, just set showdead=true and read his comment history. Pity him, for he's having a terrible Festivus. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=stinkbeetle https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=stinkbeetle
      - stinkbeetle 10mo ago
        You've become completely unhinged, you pathetic boomer, because I mildly poked fun at your secular-religion. What are you even doing you poor simpleton? Not even your fellow adherents to the faith are impressed by your mega tantrum. Time to re-evaluate your life choices.
jordanb 10mo ago
Most of the "foiled lone wolf Islamic attacks" in the US were planned by the FBI. They'd find some kid, radicalize him, recruit him, supply him with dummy weapons, plan a terrorist attack for him to carry out, then arrest him for it.
- hugh-avherald 10mo ago
  Here's an Australian example: https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-01/CDPP%20v%20Carrick%20%28a%20pseudonym%29%20%5B2023%5D%20ChCV%202.pdf https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/20... [PDF] or https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/file/cdpp-v-carrick-pseudonym-2023-vchc-2 https://www.childrenscourt.vic.gov.au/file/cdpp-v-carrick-ps...

anonymars 10mo ago

"Why don't Americans protest?", everyone wonders... Edit to clarify: perhaps the various sentiments described in the replies didn't come about entirely organically

kelseyfrog 10mo ago
I had a conversation about this with my French teacher a few months ago It was striking how different our outlooks were on the effectiveness of protests. Her position was that together, she and her fellow protesters _could_ enact change. When I look around, the stench of preconsigned defeat permeates the space. We've lived in it for so long that we've become blind to it. We've learned to be helpless. Not to mention, when a fresh face inevitably proposes large scale action, the responses always include FUD about needing to solve the poverty issue first so that participants can even attend such action. The end result is that it's stopped at the idea stage, nothing changes, and six months later a new freah face will repeat the cycle. Part of the issue is that without social safety nets, much of the public is afraid that missing a week to a month of work will guarantee them homelessness.
- antonymoose 10mo ago
  I feel like, historically, protests have beared fruit in America for leftist / progressive causes. Everything from Suffragettes and Civil Rights / anti-Vietnam to the Floyd protests of the modern day. Maybe they didn’t overthrow an entire government but the marked forward progress of each one is clear.
  - asveikau 10mo ago
    I feel there is currently a bit of of internalized propaganda about protests being stupid or worse. Witness any cause which involves protesting by blocking the street. You get an army of internet trolls talking up the idea that this is somehow evil. In the civil rights era, events like crossing bridges on foot were a key feature, done by people like Martin Luther King. In the modern era, if you see a protest on the golden gate bridge as an example, they'll be called terrorists and people will advocate for violence against them.

beeburrt 10mo ago

It evolved into gangstalking via fusion centers contrary to Wikipedia's claim that it's mAsS dElUsIoN which is obviously false to anyone who's done more than a cursory look into it. Look up NSA whistleblower Karen Stewart and also watch the tragic video of Myron May who gives an accurate description of their tactics. Ask me how I know.

rekttrader 10mo ago
Please share, new rabbit holes are the best rabbit holes.
- superb-owl 10mo ago
  This is not a good rabbit hole
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- electroglyph 10mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_stalking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_stalking this sums it up nicely: "A study from Australia and the United Kingdom by Lorraine Sheridan and David James compared 128 self-defined victims of gang stalking with a randomly selected group of 128 self-declared victims of stalking by an individual. All 128 "victims" of gang stalking were judged to be delusional, compared with only 5 victims of individual stalking."
  - treebeard901 10mo ago
    Gang stalking has evolved to mean that people using the surveillance state, often bored people in Govt or law enforcement with a specific target (and false justification), will all work together against the target and do various things to them. It is meant to be done in a deniable way. Turns out that the same people involved in this also control the doctors and the medical system who can then make a determination that the target is delusional. After all, the doctors, medical professionals, etc all require licenses from the state to continue operating. This follows from Stasi like tactics developed in East Germany which mirror the methods used by COINTELPRO. The Stasi called it Zersetzung, or deconstruction. One difference is that the Stasi didn't have the massive surveillance state that exists today. They also required in person informants on other friends and family. A large portion of the population became informants and participated in the forms of Zersetzung against the states defined target. Now cell phones and online services, along with constant tracking and surveillance have replaced this need for human informants. They still exist of course, but are just not a requirement. Some of it is just bored, power tripping law enforcement agents or people in Govt with access to the surveillance state. Even with all the data brokers and sharing, it's possible for a reasonable wealthy person to do this without acting under the color of law. Hopefully the public will know more about these operations in the near future. The lying, rights violations and gaslighting is all uniquely un-American, and the public needs to hold the state accountable for it. EDIT: A lot of the YouTube videos about it seem to go off the deep end and include conspiracies like Havana Syndrome or other crazy stuff that does fall under mental illness. This allows actual gang stalking where 3 or more people rely on Govt authority and the surveillance state to target a specific person, usually with the goal to harm them in some way. Often not physically. More reputationally, and so on. Zersetzung was real. Much is known after the fall of the Stasi. It is happening in the U.S.