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If you want to disincentivize usage of certain things, money is generally the most effective option. Yes, some rich folks won't be bothered, but even fairly low
by blauditore 9mo ago
If you want to disincentivize usage of certain things, money is generally the most effective option. Yes, some rich folks won't be bothered, but even fairly low amounts make most people think twice. Too many cars are a problem in many parts of the world, for a number of reasons (noise, smog, traffic jams, or parking space in cities), so nudging people towards alternative usage patterns is worthwhile in my opinion.
- h2zizzle 9mo agoAlternatives are the most effective option. Tolls just make laws the rich don't have to obey and conditions they don't have to experience. Aggregate suffering isn't lowered, just shifted to the poor. If you want cars off the road, you tax rich people and build trains and bike lanes, and shut down cynical RTO. Full stop.
- simondotau 9mo agoIt’s not that simple. For trains to be a complete solution you need walkable cities, and high density transport-oriented residential construction near stations. This is almost diametrically opposite to parking-oriented cities and sprawling suburbia.
- LexiMax 9mo agoThe best time for a city to invest in making their city walkable and public-transportation-able is decades ago. The second best time for a city to invest in making their city walkable and public-transportation-able is now.
- hopelite 9mo ago[flagged]
- lokar 9mo agoLocalities large and small have been moving towards higher density, walkable and transit oriented development for years now. It's happening, and it works.
- hopelite 9mo ago[flagged]
- LexiMax 9mo ago...Can anybody else make sense of this? Every time I attempt to read it, halfway through my brain flips into the mode that is normally reserved for when people start telling me that Ivermectin is a COVID remedy, or something equally farcical.
- heavyset_go 9mo agoYour brain passed its randomly scheduled calibration test and it's working within spec
- hopelite 9mo ago[flagged]
- simondotau 9mo agoOkay, but what do you think about transport-oriented development?
- notaustinpowers 9mo ago[flagged]
- hopelite 9mo ago[flagged]
- maerF0x0 9mo agoNot everyone wants walkable. I'd much rather a remote first economy and cars. One of my hobbies is riding motorcycles on race tracks, I need a garage to store them, and a vehicle to tow them there. This is practically impossible in "walkable" cities.
- h2zizzle 9mo agoI suppose Honda doesn't make bikes for domestic purchasers.
- maerF0x0 9mo agoI dont understand your comment.
- h2zizzle 9mo ago90% of Japanese residents live in, essentially, a walkable megacity, and plenty of them ride motorcycles on the country's many tracks (which you would expect, since Japan houses several of the top motorcycle manufacturers). They don't have any issues participating in their hobby, and you wouldn't either. Note that this holds without even having to mention that holding the ability for millions of people to be independent and mobile without needing to purchase and maintain a vehicle against a niche and expensive hobby is ridiculous. But there's no need to bring that up because we can have both.
- bluGill 9mo agoSuburbs are often plenty dense for great transit if you give great. Howeveriwhen transit is as bad as most get it is no wonder nobody uses it
- mschuster91 9mo ago> If you want cars off the road, you tax rich people and build trains and bike lanes, and shut down cynical RTO. Full stop. The first two smell like communism, the last massively harms the rich people and their playthings (REITs - real estate investment trusts). Won't happen, not in countries where Big Money is pulling the strings (i.e. the US, Germany and UK).
- lovich 9mo agoIf levying taxes and using those tax receipts to build infrastructure is enough to smell like communism to you, I have unfortunate news to tell you about how every single government on the planet operates
- mschuster91 9mo agoShould have added a /s. My point was that this is precisely what way too many people think, and this is why good things either do not happen at all or get massively impeded until they are finally done.
- lovich 9mo agoMy apologies for not picking up on the sardonic tone, and I appreciate that you don't rely on the crutch of /s to make up for others lack of reading comprehension.
- integralid 9mo agoBut UK and Germany are already heavily invested in taxing rich people, trains and bike lanes?
- blauditore 9mo agoI know many people who would always prefer their cars over trains or bikes, simply because that's what they know, and they would not leave their comfort zone unless there's something nudging/pushing them.
- bdangubic 9mo agomy wife and I lived a block walk from a metro stop. my wife’s work was on the same metro line, also one block walk. 20 minute metro ride, at least 45 minute drive plus parking. my wife has not taken a metro once in 4.5 years.
- anon84873628 9mo agoWeird how you can have different prices for different seats at the ball game, or different fare classes on the airplane, or member access lines at museum, or valet parking, or different restaurants, or different clothing stores... But introduce price segmentation on highways and people just can't believe it.
- notaustinpowers 9mo agoPlanes, sports, restaurants, stores, etc are all privately-owned or publicly-traded businesses. In the social contract, it's expected that businesses offer services depending on what you're willing to pay. Driving and public transport is not a business, it is a civil service. Should we begin to offer tiered plans for EMS as well?
- sotix 9mo agoMy sports stadium was built with my taxpayer dollars. I can't even watch the team on tv though. We do sort of have tiered EMS with insurance and ambulance costs. When my buddy came to the US from India, he was told, "unless you're blessing out, call an Uber to the ER."
- stephenbez 9mo agoDo you have an issue with paying for electricity or water by use? Or to ride public transit that you pay for a ticket? It seems like a good property that someone who uses something the most pays the most. If something has positive externalities such as vaccines or education then I’m fine subsidizing or making it free, but traffic has negative externalities.
- snickell 9mo agoHighways are almost always publicly owned monopolies. We, the public, choose to build them because they enrich all of us. If you want to raise the money to buy land and build a private highway, price segment away. If you want to price segment a publicly owned and operate commons, it needs to be in the public interest.
- mpyne 9mo ago> Yes, some rich folks won't be bothered, but even fairly low amounts make most people think twice. We saw this very clearly recently with the Manhattan congestion road tax. $9 paid no more than once per day to drive into Lower Manhattan is close to nothing by NYC standards, yet traffic still dropped substantially and stayed suppressed.
- maerF0x0 9mo agoAdditional to your point, one of the benefits of high user pays is to allow opt-in progressive taxation. (The rich who want to use it can, at their own cost, the rich who do not feel it's fair can sit in the traffic with everyone else and avoid the taxation)... idea: Maximize the income of the toll lane and use the money to subsidize new free lanes or other forms of mass transit.