25 ms·

Paying for the road-time you use, like any shared resource, seems fair to me. It would be nice to see decreases in earned income taxes though. If the retort t

Paying for the road-time you use, like any shared resource, seems fair to me. It would be nice to see decreases in earned income taxes though. If the retort to this is it impacts poorer people more, then that is a separate problem fixed by redistributing more cash, so that the wealth gap is smaller. Edit: to respond to reply about trucks causing more damage to road: Construction costs are one cost of roads, but another cost is time cost due to congestion (and resulting effects of delays due to congestion). A variable rate toll that also incorporates congestion is the ideal way to manage road use, much like paying more for electricity or other resources at peak demand to modulate demand.

morkalork 10mo ago
Taxes on gas?
- lotsofpulp 10mo ago
  Gas is a different shared resource (e.g. it’s effects on air quality/climate change) than road capacity.
  - jtbayly 10mo ago
    The gas tax is supposedly to pay for roads. Now that they are supposedly paying for the roads via tolls, I guess we can expect that they will not decrease the gas tax but add another tax that supposedly pays for the roads.
    - Arainach 10mo ago
      The gas tax has never paid for full road maintenance. It's always been subsidized from other funds.
    - vel0city 10mo ago
      There are still all the roads that aren't toll roads that still need that tax revenue to support.
- selectodude 10mo ago
  Unfortunately, it hasn’t seen a big jump in a while, all cars are getting heavier and electrified, and gas mileage is going up.
- redwall_hp 10mo ago
  Odometry tax when you register the vehicle, with tiers based on the curb weight. Also higher gas taxes for carbon reasons.
  - WillAdams 10mo ago
    Add a mechanism for folks to file for a rebate for distance driven on private roads (an uncle's driveway is roughly a quarter mile, so half a mile six days a week 52 times each year would equal a 156 mile reduction).
inglor_cz 10mo ago
The vast majority of damage on the road is caused by vehicles with high axle load, e.g. trucks, especially overloaded trucks. IIRC the damage is proportional to fourth power of the axle load. As a consequence, personal cars barely register. It would make sense to collect toll from trucks only, and possibly weigh them all, because overloaded trucks are extra damaging to the road.
- dietrichepp 10mo ago
  If we only had trucks on the road, we’d need less road, right? The street where I live could be about a third of the width if it were not for personal cars.
- DangitBobby 10mo ago
  To carry this further, of maintenance taxes for roads were structured appropriately, trucks would pay so much that it would be prohibitively expensive to ship across the states in Semis. We'd likely see a resurgence of rail transport.
- floundy 10mo ago
  Rhode Island is trying this. The gantries have been up for years, but it was challenged in court by the trucking lobby. The state prevailed with some concessions, and is planning to reinstate the truck tolls soon. Probably, due to the small size of RI, it will just cause goods not bound directly for RI to divert along I-395 up through CT and MA, and I-290 and I-495 in MA.
NegativeK 10mo ago
> If the retort to this is it impacts poorer people more We've ended up, though, with a growing wealth gap and more tolls.

morkalork 10mo ago

Taxes on gas?

lotsofpulp 10mo ago
Gas is a different shared resource (e.g. it’s effects on air quality/climate change) than road capacity.
- jtbayly 10mo ago
  The gas tax is supposedly to pay for roads. Now that they are supposedly paying for the roads via tolls, I guess we can expect that they will not decrease the gas tax but add another tax that supposedly pays for the roads.
  - Arainach 10mo ago
    The gas tax has never paid for full road maintenance. It's always been subsidized from other funds.
  - vel0city 10mo ago
    There are still all the roads that aren't toll roads that still need that tax revenue to support.
selectodude 10mo ago
Unfortunately, it hasn’t seen a big jump in a while, all cars are getting heavier and electrified, and gas mileage is going up.
redwall_hp 10mo ago
Odometry tax when you register the vehicle, with tiers based on the curb weight. Also higher gas taxes for carbon reasons.
- WillAdams 10mo ago
  Add a mechanism for folks to file for a rebate for distance driven on private roads (an uncle's driveway is roughly a quarter mile, so half a mile six days a week 52 times each year would equal a 156 mile reduction).

inglor_cz 10mo ago

The vast majority of damage on the road is caused by vehicles with high axle load, e.g. trucks, especially overloaded trucks. IIRC the damage is proportional to fourth power of the axle load. As a consequence, personal cars barely register. It would make sense to collect toll from trucks only, and possibly weigh them all, because overloaded trucks are extra damaging to the road.

dietrichepp 10mo ago
If we only had trucks on the road, we’d need less road, right? The street where I live could be about a third of the width if it were not for personal cars.
DangitBobby 10mo ago
To carry this further, of maintenance taxes for roads were structured appropriately, trucks would pay so much that it would be prohibitively expensive to ship across the states in Semis. We'd likely see a resurgence of rail transport.
floundy 10mo ago
Rhode Island is trying this. The gantries have been up for years, but it was challenged in court by the trucking lobby. The state prevailed with some concessions, and is planning to reinstate the truck tolls soon. Probably, due to the small size of RI, it will just cause goods not bound directly for RI to divert along I-395 up through CT and MA, and I-290 and I-495 in MA.

NegativeK 10mo ago

> If the retort to this is it impacts poorer people more We've ended up, though, with a growing wealth gap and more tolls.