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Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave
- 4d4m 10mo agoThis is sad, and if true as presented a big suit for MongoDB
- simmerup 10mo agoReally quite nasty of the company.
- GiorgioG 10mo ago[flagged]
- twojacobtwo 10mo agoI wish someone had sat me down and told me this as a teenager, especially with the addendum that anything about "family" in business descriptions is nothing more than bullshit/marketing.
- thomassmith65 10mo agoThat is broadly true, but it's possibly better to pretend it isn't, because it is self-fulfilling. The less people expect ethical behavior, the lower the pressure people feel to behave ethically... and repeat.
- cdecker 10mo agoI wonder if this should be the case. The state consists of it's voters and it's voted representatives. Companies and the economy in general, are secondary entities (unless you really treat them as people, which opens a whole can of worms, see PACs etc), and a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. As such, yes, be pro-economy, but don't forget the people having to live in that society.
- GiorgioG 10mo agoIMO, there should be a balance. My brother lives in Europe and it seems every time he has a small ache/cold he can go to the doctor and get a note for a couple of days off. On the other hand, companies here in the US expect you to be at work unless you’ve been hit by a bus.
- em-bee 10mo agoif you are in pain, you need to rest. period. there is no other option. of course the system can be gamed simply because pain can't be measured objectively, at least not without expensive machinery. a cold can be infectious. i don't want people to come to work with a cold.
- astrange 10mo agoTrying to force companies to keep people longer than they want is how the social safety net works in some places (like Japan) and it's how the US healthcare system works, but both of those are, like, bad. It's better to make it easier to quit and find a new job and support people in the meantime. Denmark as an example. But to do this you have to have other ways to push people to stay productive.
- cdecker 10mo agoThat's part of it, I'm not saying that companies should keep employees past their usefulness, I'm saying government intervention should be pro-citizen first, and pro-economy second (ideally the latter is a logical consequence of the former). Currently it seems like it's companies first, and workers maybe third to last, but only because companies still need workers (and they try really hard to make those obsolete too). That results in profit maximizing for the few who made it to the carpet floors, and nothing for the rest. It's become too extractive, and short sighted.
- cdecker 10mo agoAnd yes, one of the government interventions that is pro-citizen could be better retraining programs, which are beneficial to companies too, but that's not the goal, it's to give people a motivation, and a sense of accomplishment, and part of the society.
- favflam 10mo agoIf companies operated as partnerships instead of limited liability companies, then I guess I could buy into this. But states grant special privileges of capping personal liability for investors. Perhaps states should rethink the conditions for granting this if too many companies act like Gordon Gecko psycho paths. The British East India company had its charter revoked once it started stepping over red lines. Voters need to reconsider the cart-blanche granting of privileges to corporate entities.
- stavros 10mo agoCompanies are made of people. Companies only use people if the people who make up the companies are ok with it. Being a decisionmaker in a company doesn't give you carte blanche to behave like an amoral automaton. So no, MongoDB are assholes for doing this. They could have had some humanity and prioritized human well-being over cost savings.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- GiorgioG 10mo agoI did not say MongoDB weren’t being assholes here. I’m saying asshole behavior is the norm and should be expected. I have an excellent boss (and his boss is fantastically supportive too). Several coworkers have needed leave for sometimes weeks and they have accommodated them. I don’t expect this is the norm or written in our company policies.
- stavros 10mo agoI disagree, if you expect asshole behaviour, you make it the norm. Expect the behaviour you want, and complain when the standard isn't met. That's how you raise the bar.
- GiorgioG 10mo agoThat may work where you live, but as a small cog in a big wheel in the USA, profit over people is the rule, not the exception.
- baubino 10mo agoIt works in the US too. Workplace organizing is at its highest rate in decades right now. I’m not saying it’s easy but it will only continue to be a rule if it is never challenged.
- 10mo ago
- toss1 10mo agoBut this is particularly egregious >>"...She asked for an extension to complete her treatment, or at the least a short period to consult with her medical providers about whether and how she might be able to return to work before the treatment was completed. .." >>"An extension of Annie’s leave would have cost MongoDB nothing. We made it clear that they did not need to pay her or hold her job open for her. We just asked them not to fire her while she was in such a vulnerable state, as we feared that would result in tragedy. We just wanted a little more time to get her stabilized." There is no plausible need of management that would outweigh simply letting someone stay on the books as "employed-on-unpaid-leave" for some extra weeks or months. Whoever did this should be held personally responsible for negligent harm. And yeah, never touching their software, IDGAF how useful it is. Sickening
- jrflowers 10mo ago> Really quite nasty of the company. > This is a sad situation I like this post where you agree with the person you’re replying to and then imagine somebody posting “Wow this was so unexpected because my worldview does not have room for companies to be mean, can somebody explain this??” and calling out that imaginary poster for being naive.
- ironmagma 10mo agoIt's expected because of a large swath of defeatist citizens making comments like this. If we don't make this normal, it won't be normal.
- GiorgioG 10mo agoIt’s already normal and has been for a long time. Defeatist? No, people who have mortgages to pay and families to feed can’t be martyrs for workers’ rights. You want to change it, I’m not opposed, but you make it sound simple/easy.
- ironmagma 10mo agoContinually acknowledging it renews its legitimacy as the status quo. Who said anything about families or mortgages? The tech industry has plenty of single mobile renters; we can make change by having a little faith in each other.
- GiorgioG 10mo agoBy all means then, lead the revolution.
- ironmagma 10mo agoFirst step is going to be for you to admit you’re actively stopping it.
- GiorgioG 10mo agoThe first step is for you to get your head out of the sand and look around. Jobs are scarce unless you're knee-deep in ML/AI. You're talking like a naive, idealistic, young person. I'm long past any of those attributes and I do have a family and a mortgage. Sure you can move to Europe, workers have more rights...and they earn a hell of a lot less than we do here in the USA (my brother lives in Europe.) And even there companies try to employ contract workers so they have more "flexibility".
- reify 10mo ago[flagged]
- AgentK20 10mo ago“concerns about confidentiality or respect for the persons family” Sooo clearly you didn’t even click the link, given this is a post BY the family to raise awareness of scummy corporate behavior. While discussing mental health and self harm can be distressing, this post seems totally in-line with other HN discussions calling out malicious corporate behavior?
- flounder3 10mo ago[flagged]
- appletrotter 10mo ago[flagged]
- aeternum 10mo agoSad. And perhaps a controversial take but consider the counterfactual: Should it be illegal to fire employees that recent took mental health leave? Get a bad review or put on a PIP? It's already becoming a common strategy to immediately take mental health/sick leave.
- rexpop 10mo agoIf neither option satisfies, we must go up the stack. There is something seriously wrong with a society that drives educated, productive adults to suicide.
- mc32 10mo agoThe US is somewhere in the middle, right there with some European countries. It's hard to say what drives people over the edge. Surprisingly Uruguay is high up there but Uganda, Ghana and Colombia are low.
- Spivak 10mo agoYes. This is The Family and Medical Leave Act. > An employer is prohibited from discriminating or retaliating against an employee or prospective employee for having exercised or attempted to exercise any FMLA right. You can fire someone after they come back but you will need to show receipts. Your employer also doesn't pay you when you take that leave so it would be a strange way to game the system.
- spit2wind 10mo agoSounds like the kind of thing a union or works counsil could help with: enforcing a fair policy. That and revisiting the concept of at-will employment.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- black_13 10mo ago[dead]
- NedF 10mo ago[dead]
- antonvs 10mo ago[flagged]
- ianburrell 10mo agoMongoDB the database is product of MongoDB the company.
- antonvs 10mo agoApparently.
- kderbyma 10mo agoI think the Head of HR should face legal repercussions and have a full audit. I guarantee you that they have committed other crimes....
- innocentoldguy 10mo agoI feel sorry for this woman. Meta did this to me because they're discriminatory dicks, so I know how she felt. Fortunately, I have a tremendous amount of family support.
- fortran77 10mo agoI’m not sure about third party responsibility for suicide. It’s a horrible, tragic situation.
- no_wizard 10mo agoIf you believe a person can drive another person suicide through how they act, I don’t see how this would be any different, especially since they both rely on power asymmetry. If we don’t want to hook MongoDB responsible in some manner than we need to remove that asymmetry
- Dracophoenix 10mo agoDefine "drive". Correlation is not causation. It's difficult to anticipate the trigger for a particular action or choice when other circumstances or stressors may have more significant factors that contributed to the decision. After all, many have lost jobs without ending their own lives and many have killed themselves despite high-profile, gainful employment. Instead, holding MongoDB responsible risks incentivizing this company and others to turn away and preemptively furlough anyone remotely approaching the statistical profile of a suicide risk.
- joecool1029 10mo agoI don't know legally how it works, but my gut says if this is found to be a wrongful termination under state/local/FMLA, then it also stands to reason that this could also be a wrongful death. From 1960, but it covers this line of thinking wrt suicide: https://digitalcommons.law.buffalo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3098&context=buffalolawreview https://digitalcommons.law.buffalo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a... Anyway here's the actual complaint (I read it after I wrote the above), I guess her parents/counsel thought the same thing: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=2zsnGyMOzsPUoO3hYAW63Q== https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docInde...
- ivraatiems 10mo agoThank you for finding this, really helpful. I checked PACER and didn't realize it was filed in state court instead. The complaint is speaking and it is aggressively written and, to my non-lawyer mind, pretty well drafted. If I were Mongo, I would be trying aggressively to settle this and make it go away. If I were the parents, I would be trying very hard to force any other outcome, preferably one where Mongo pays the biggest public relations price possible for what they've done, assuming the allegations are true. The way Mongo answers the complaint will be really instructive in figuring out how they intend to play this, and in whether they think there is some explanation that will make this seem less dire.
- eapressoandcats 10mo agoUnfortunately, it’s not as strong a case as you’d think. One of three cases has to be true: either she was disabled and unable to work, disabled but able to fulfill job duties, or not disabled at all. In the first case Mongo can likely fire her once FMLA is up (notice that the termination is 12 weeks after she started leave). Disabilities aren’t protected if they leave you unable to perform job duties, which is what Mongo will claim. Notice how the complaint tries to say additional leave is “reasonable accommodation”. Mongo will claim not working at all means you’re not fulfilling job duties and that she used up her FMLA. In theory if you become unable to do your job due to disability you should get disability insurance, which is mandatory in NY, but it sounds like Prudential rejected the claim, hence the letter from the doctor there. In the latter two cases, then Mongo will claim that she could come back to work and asking her to was not violating any ADA laws, and that they would have been willing to make e.g. scheduling accommodations for any treatments and so on to accommodate a disability that doesn’t prevent her from fulfilling core job duties.
- xvxvx 10mo agoFrom their site: 'Employee mental health and wellbeing is another core focus at MongoDB. It’s important for us to help break the stigma around mental health and provide our employees with the support they need, especially at work. We are dedicated to providing our employees with valuable tools to face all of life’s challenges and offer mental health programs that provide confidential assistance from qualified professionals.' https://www.mongodb.com/company/blog/culture/employee-benefits-that-make-a-difference-at-mongodb https://www.mongodb.com/company/blog/culture/employee-benefi... Never trust this horseshit!
- emerongi 10mo agoAll public culture documents are bullshit. It always comes down to your direct manager and what they believe in.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- nineteen999 10mo agoAnd whether they have stones or not, or whether their manager is a bully, and so on and so on ...
- citizenpaul 10mo agoI worked at a smallish startup where on the wall behind reception in huge raised letters. The owner had installed "company values" like trust accountability, ect. It was referred to internally as the "wall of lies" rather thab reception or lobby. The owner was a total sociopath.
- strix_mahalo 10mo ago"Employee mental health and wellbeing is another core focus at MongoDB" Loophole. Fire them, they're not employees, we don't have to care about them.
- psyclobe 10mo ago[flagged]
- betaby 10mo agoElephant in the room is that the healthcare is tied to the employment.
- DabbyDabberson 10mo agoThey are entitled to COBRA
- spl757 10mo agoCobra is great if you have a lot of money, because it's still expensive.
- coolThingsFirst 10mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- 0xbadc0de5 10mo agoThis is sad and tragic but ultimately I don't think Mongo bares any responsibility here. If her partner left her while she was having a prolonged mental health crisis, would her partner be to blame for her suicide? I would argue: no.
- ffsm8 10mo agoI'm not American, and neither am I a lawyer, but the elephant in the room is that the workplace is responsible for health insurance, hence terminating her effectively removes her ability to get treatment, too. Especially in this context, where she asked for at least a minor extension to finish her treatment. I suspect the parents have a solid chance of winning this because the health insurance is linked, otherwise I'd completely agree with your opinion. An employer shouldn't be responsible for mothering their employees. It creates perverse incentives on both sides of the contract
- jostylr 10mo agoWhy shouldn't her medical providers be responsible for continuing critical health care regardless of payment? Why is it on the employer who is only tangentially related to this versus the people actually charging large sums of money for medically necessary treatment? Also, the same health insurance can be continued after termination (with some external payment, of course) in addition to medicaid probably being available. None of that may be easy for someone with mental issues to navigate, but that is systematic. As for the minor extension, is it clear how long she was on leave and what the conversation had been before the termination? The post said that they asked for small time extension, but did not give any indication as to what was happening before, neither length of time employed before taking the leave, what caused the leave, what was said in terms of a return, how long the absence was, etc. I feel like plugging in different answers for those questions would change how I feel about the culpability of the company in the current legal regime.
- pas 10mo agoThe usual answer is that there are other people who also need things and cannot pay, so then how should the provider pick between them fairly? (And likely some have a "free clinic", and as you mentioned there are options.) Still almost all of the responsibility is on the patient, which is a terrible situation to be in for mental health patients. And even if the courts will find that the termination was wrongful it's unlikely that matters, because employers are not responsible for keeping employees alive and happy, they are responsible for making the usual safety precautions (see OSHA) and disability accommodations. All the great perks of our cherished individualism suck when you have no one to enjoy them with.
- Rastonbury 10mo agoHow did that ever get approved? The person who wanted them fired is an asshole, that's given but this is multiple failures. So sad. It's just one employee let them take their leave, it's not worth the legal and now PR repercussions
- trizuz 10mo ago[dead]
- fleroviumna 10mo ago[dead]
- canucker2016 10mo agofrom NY Post, https://nypost.com/2025/12/27/us-news/nyc-woman-driven-to-suicide-by-extreme-work-stress-at-hells-kitchen-tech-company-lawsuit/ https://nypost.com/2025/12/27/us-news/nyc-woman-driven-to-su... But on Sept. 13, 2024, she attempted suicide again with the same lethal drug “citing the shame she felt at being fired by MongoDB,” according to the lawsuit. Surman apparently regretted the decision and called 911 herself — but died on the way to the hospital. Mongo later backtracked on an offer to retrieve Annie’s life insurance policy for the family, who believe the company fired Annie right before a mass layoff to avoid paying her severance, according to the suit. MongoDB's behaviour just seems more and more callous...
- rafaelgoncalves 10mo agoso sad, hope the family get some kind of closure (never will be enough with an lost life)
- knowitnone3 9mo ago"right before a mass layoff to avoid paying her severance" if that was the case, wouldn't they have done that for everybody in order to avoid severance pay? Also , according to the Labor Board, "There is no requirement in the FLSA for severance pay. Severance pay is a matter of agreement between an employer and an employee (or the employee's representative)." So if they didn't want to pay a severance, they didn't have to. Her parents failed her more than anybody and they are only trying to turn her into a paycheck.
- pm90 10mo agoThis is incredibly sad. From the complaint (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46405847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46405847): """ When she arrived at the hospital and learned that Annie had died, Ms. Connolly collapsed and screamed non-stop for hours. Hospital staff placed Ms. Connolly in a separate room for observation, and the doctor who declared Annie dead had to speak to other family members about what had occurred because Ms. Connolly could not bear to speak to him or to see Annie’s body. 88. Mr. Surman was alone in the back of a taxi to the airport when he received the call that Annie had died. He could hear his wife’s screams in the background while he was helpless to comfort her. He sobbed through his redeye flight to join Ms. Connolly. """ Reading the complaint, I don't see any way in which the company is not responsible for this. The about turn in requiring her to come back in couple of weeks or else be terminated is just cruel. Now, I know what companies can be like, and especially if they're doing layoffs, things can get quite bonkers. But ultimately, the responsibility rests with the company: like it or not, an employer in America is responsible for their healthcare, which means you need to be careful when dealing with what happens when you suddenly end it.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- spl757 10mo agoCorporations are drivin solely by increasing profits for shareholders. Anything else is just for show or compliance with law, and even that is rare because the fine is almost always miniscule in the grand scheme of things.
- mongo_throwaway 10mo agoThis is incredibly heartbreaking. I was fired from MongoDB after experiencing mental health problems, and HR as well as my manager were incredibly callous while I tried to navigate the accommodations process. Did not have a chance to take medical leave before I was summarily PIPed. It has taken me years to recover mentally. In the months afterwards, there were many points at which I was close to committing suicide. I hope the family is able to get closure, and I hope MongoDB loses in court.