2 ms·

In 30 years in tech, I have never once heard anyone use the term "Open Source" to refer to anything other than FOSS. I have also never once heard anyone use th

by ghurtado 10mo ago

In 30 years in tech, I have never once heard anyone use the term "Open Source" to refer to anything other than FOSS. I have also never once heard anyone use the term FOSS outside of the written form. So the opposite of what you said, I guess. You also seem to be saying that the term "open source" existed before software did, so I feel compelled to ask: what do you think "source" stands for in "open source"?

jfengel 10mo ago
"Source" can mean any source of information. The term "open source intelligence", referring to public records, goes back to the 60s.
- oblio 10mo ago
  In IT contexts it's used for source code in 99% of situations. Most people have nothing to do with the military or espionage.
  - yieldcrv 10mo ago
    it's about to be 98% and I'm fine with that people need to re-evaluate their relationship with open source instead of as a synonym for FOSS, because it clearly doesn't mean that regardless of the colloquialism and FOSS has an adjective and noun for a reason, its older than the colloquialism this is just a reversion to the mean
echelon 10mo ago
The OSI definition and "open source purity" is designed by big tech to erode any value layer open source companies could use to threaten them. New movements like "fair source", which is a form of source available + free use + expiring copyright is the ideal license. It's effectively unlimited use for customers and users, but has a baked in "non-compete" preventing low effort third parties from coming in and eating the market of managed services established by the authors. We need to kill open source purity. Especially if we want to erode the hyperscalers that aren't even giving away the magic parts or valuable parts of their kingdoms. Open source purity is a socialist dream while we're still living under the Empire. And it prevents the formation of a salient that can punch through. It's a very low suboptima. I don't see any reason why you would want fair source authors to go "OSI" open other than taking their revenue stream as your own. The license bakes in contingencies in case the authors go out of business to open the license up for community ownership. That's good enough. If these businesses were OSI open, the businessss become unsustainable and impossible to scale into something formidable that could chip away at entirely closed hyperscalers.
- jen20 10mo ago
  Replacing hyperscalers with other hyperscalers born off the back of open source contributors is not exactly progress.
  - echelon 10mo ago
    How is it not progress? You have full access to the code, you can use it yourself however you'd like, and the copyrights expire. They just ask you not to compete with them for a few years. How is that any way comparable to AWS? Perfect truly is the enemy of good. In this case, perfect murders good and locks you in the dungeon of eternal bad so you can think endlessly about perfect. It also stabs any good that comes along while crying about perfect.
    - jen20 10mo ago
      > They just ask you not to compete with them for a few years. No Open Source license actually permits this - by definition of Open Source. Also the notion that copyright "expires" is ludicrous - we only just saw work from the 1920s enter the public domain (and source is no different to that). Laundering via AI clearly does not count, either.
yieldcrv 10mo ago
that's alright, FOSS is 40 years old and has an adjective and noun in front and behind "open source" for a reason this is a reversion to the mean

jfengel 10mo ago

"Source" can mean any source of information. The term "open source intelligence", referring to public records, goes back to the 60s.

oblio 10mo ago
In IT contexts it's used for source code in 99% of situations. Most people have nothing to do with the military or espionage.
- yieldcrv 10mo ago
  it's about to be 98% and I'm fine with that people need to re-evaluate their relationship with open source instead of as a synonym for FOSS, because it clearly doesn't mean that regardless of the colloquialism and FOSS has an adjective and noun for a reason, its older than the colloquialism this is just a reversion to the mean

echelon 10mo ago

The OSI definition and "open source purity" is designed by big tech to erode any value layer open source companies could use to threaten them. New movements like "fair source", which is a form of source available + free use + expiring copyright is the ideal license. It's effectively unlimited use for customers and users, but has a baked in "non-compete" preventing low effort third parties from coming in and eating the market of managed services established by the authors. We need to kill open source purity. Especially if we want to erode the hyperscalers that aren't even giving away the magic parts or valuable parts of their kingdoms. Open source purity is a socialist dream while we're still living under the Empire. And it prevents the formation of a salient that can punch through. It's a very low suboptima. I don't see any reason why you would want fair source authors to go "OSI" open other than taking their revenue stream as your own. The license bakes in contingencies in case the authors go out of business to open the license up for community ownership. That's good enough. If these businesses were OSI open, the businessss become unsustainable and impossible to scale into something formidable that could chip away at entirely closed hyperscalers.

jen20 10mo ago
Replacing hyperscalers with other hyperscalers born off the back of open source contributors is not exactly progress.
- echelon 10mo ago
  How is it not progress? You have full access to the code, you can use it yourself however you'd like, and the copyrights expire. They just ask you not to compete with them for a few years. How is that any way comparable to AWS? Perfect truly is the enemy of good. In this case, perfect murders good and locks you in the dungeon of eternal bad so you can think endlessly about perfect. It also stabs any good that comes along while crying about perfect.
  - jen20 10mo ago
    > They just ask you not to compete with them for a few years. No Open Source license actually permits this - by definition of Open Source. Also the notion that copyright "expires" is ludicrous - we only just saw work from the 1920s enter the public domain (and source is no different to that). Laundering via AI clearly does not count, either.

yieldcrv 10mo ago

that's alright, FOSS is 40 years old and has an adjective and noun in front and behind "open source" for a reason this is a reversion to the mean