4 ms·

In response to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23475069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23475069 It seems that "third-person first" encapsulates the

In response to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23475069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23475069 It seems that "third-person first" encapsulates the ALARM theory perfectly.. (Shannon's game "antibootstraps": if the machine loses twice in a row, it acts to prevent the human from learning its own strat. The "insurance[1]-dual" ? :) In https://mastodon.social/@UP8/113189883152005058 https://mastodon.social/@UP8/113189883152005058 The bottom box is labelled "emptiness, void, etc". its archaic nature would suggest it's that primordial "third person"? [1] as usual, a shorthand for Morelly's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_needs#Origin_of_the_phrase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_abi... Which also points to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidary_obligations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidary_obligations >Contractual solidary obligations are frequently created by insurance policies (take on solidarity v love-- later..) >The origin of solidarity can be traced to a Roman idea known as correality where a single thing was owed by more than one person [but only one person need ever be accountable for it]

aebtebeten 10mo ago
In games where any given strategy is potentially exploitable, I guess the meta is (a) rapidly decide if you're playing against a fish, or if you are the fish; then (b) if against a fish, exploit their strat, or (c) if you are the fish, run a mixed strat, to at least avoid yours being exploitable. Bottom box as primordial "third person" would go along with egolessness in various traditions (including 李小龙's "be water, my friend")? EDIT: https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing#n11598 https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing#n11598 ? Note that solidarity from roman law was directly taken up by civil codes, but HN's home country is a common law jurisdiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems#/media/File:Legal_Systems_-_Global.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems... ("joint and several liability" seems to cover passive, but not active, solidarity?)
- gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
  (If we replace fish by "unicellular organism", it might be easier to get to "what kind of (meta)game gets them to multicellularity"?) Note that narcissism is what PH/Kohut is trying to breakup here. I struggle to put egolessness at its foundation, because that smells too much like nihilism. seem s increasingly less healthy to scale nihilistic therapy to a handful, 37 (~Dunbar), 1000s (POUM outer party?) Why not an alternative life-force that could legitimise the "ri" in shu-ha-ri, "acting-out", "disruption" (so take it both personal and ... solidarital (-activism)?) [Creative] disruption is after all the unspoken (meta?)ideology on HN* Fully hypothetically, we shall then consider the behaviour of "(self-)therapists" in that scenario- "weaponized curiosity" bootstrapping into a full alarm ---as "we" model the minds running a "Bildungs"-institution (PH), the spiessig (aeb), HN mods (yours truly) :) (I'd like to take it here to "self jokes or -tickling", but "too many knobs spoil the chat".. EDIT to circle back to civil vs common systems wrt fueling creative disruption soon enough) *Seems like a step up from "Schumpeterian" "creative destruction"/will-to-power tbh
  - aebtebeten 10mo ago
    (fish in the poker sense, if that wasn't clear) Right, I just think Kohut's third box (we are talking about the bottom one, right?) may be just as profitably looked at through the "egolessness" prism as through the "integrated" prism. Looking through the shu-ha-ri prism, I could see the top two boxes as being symptomatic of the "ha" stage: breaking the rules with grandiose intentions usually leads to worthless results? In this model, there are two paths out: a retreat from frustration, back into "shu", or a tunnelling through frustration, onwards into "ri"? (to what degree might tunnelling relate to LLM "double descent"?) Speaking of "weaponized curiosity", I once ran across a recommendation for determining which puppies to bother attempting to train as hunting dogs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488445 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488445
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
      ELI5 which features of double descent evoked tunnelling to you?
      - aebtebeten 10mo ago
        If we look at "twice made dips", we say two times as there is first a dip, then a peak (rise and dip), and then the next dip. This is like when one hops the band gap: there is first a free wave, then one that looks like it dies out, but if it is still a bit big by the end of the gap, then it goes on to the next free wave.
        gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
        Bloch oscillations? Didn't see that coming tbh. ELIgs then
        aebtebeten 10mo ago
- deleted 10mo ago
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- gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
  https://www.thenandnow.co/2023/06/24/adorno-and-horkheimer-dialectic-of-enlightenment-part-i/#:~:text=All%20the%20adventures%20Odysseus%20survives%20are%20dangerous%20temptations%20deflecting%20the%20self%20from%20the%20path%20of%20its%20logic https://www.thenandnow.co/2023/06/24/adorno-and-horkheimer-d... Not like water? Or just like water? https://archive.ph/2025.12.29-103422/https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%8A%E5%96%84%E8%8B%A5%E6%B0%B4/10744883#:~:text=%E5%A4%B1%E3%80%81%E7%BD%AA%E8%BF%87%E3%80%82-,Update%3A,-%E6%B0%B4%E4%B9%83%E5%A4%A9 https://archive.ph/2025.12.29-103422/https://baike.baidu.com... Could be explained by a dichotomy* between "intuition" and "deliberation" 刻意(尚行)? A sorta Buxton mechanism.. (intentionally avoiding "saddles" "minima" or whatnot :) The former "turns enlightenment into myth" (cf again Horkheimer+Adorno) *Gemini tells me that the best approx to "creative disruption" is [eu]kainotomia
  - aebtebeten 10mo ago
    老子, despite being generally contra, had the option of deliberation; intuition* ("having the proper action in cache") was the only timescale available to Lee. * is it intuition, or is it following a geodesic on (your foliation of) the Lagrangian?
    - gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
      Lee? Ah! (Was distracted by santu gonger <-> ) https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%89%E5%85%94%E5%9B%BE/10784891#:~:text=%E5%AE%87%E5%AE%99%E4%B8%AD%E3%80%82-,%E7%BB%86%E8%83%9E%E5%AD%98%E5%9C%A8%E5%9C%A8%E4%BA%BA%E4%BD%93%E4%B8%AD%E4%B8%80%E6%A0%B7%EF%BC%8C%E6%98%AF%E4%BA%92%E7%9B%B8%E8%81%94%E7%B3%BB%E7%9D%80%E7%9A%84%EF%BC%8C,-%E8%80%8C%E4%B8%89%E5%8F%AA https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%89%E5%85%94%E5%9B%BE/107... I'm still trying to internalize+merge the other sense of Lagrangian (as in "L submanifold")

aebtebeten 10mo ago

In games where any given strategy is potentially exploitable, I guess the meta is (a) rapidly decide if you're playing against a fish, or if you are the fish; then (b) if against a fish, exploit their strat, or (c) if you are the fish, run a mixed strat, to at least avoid yours being exploitable. Bottom box as primordial "third person" would go along with egolessness in various traditions (including 李小龙's "be water, my friend")? EDIT: https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing#n11598 https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing#n11598 ? Note that solidarity from roman law was directly taken up by civil codes, but HN's home country is a common law jurisdiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems#/media/File:Legal_Systems_-_Global.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems... ("joint and several liability" seems to cover passive, but not active, solidarity?)

gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
(If we replace fish by "unicellular organism", it might be easier to get to "what kind of (meta)game gets them to multicellularity"?) Note that narcissism is what PH/Kohut is trying to breakup here. I struggle to put egolessness at its foundation, because that smells too much like nihilism. seem s increasingly less healthy to scale nihilistic therapy to a handful, 37 (~Dunbar), 1000s (POUM outer party?) Why not an alternative life-force that could legitimise the "ri" in shu-ha-ri, "acting-out", "disruption" (so take it both personal and ... solidarital (-activism)?) [Creative] disruption is after all the unspoken (meta?)ideology on HN* Fully hypothetically, we shall then consider the behaviour of "(self-)therapists" in that scenario- "weaponized curiosity" bootstrapping into a full alarm ---as "we" model the minds running a "Bildungs"-institution (PH), the spiessig (aeb), HN mods (yours truly) :) (I'd like to take it here to "self jokes or -tickling", but "too many knobs spoil the chat".. EDIT to circle back to civil vs common systems wrt fueling creative disruption soon enough) *Seems like a step up from "Schumpeterian" "creative destruction"/will-to-power tbh
- aebtebeten 10mo ago
  (fish in the poker sense, if that wasn't clear) Right, I just think Kohut's third box (we are talking about the bottom one, right?) may be just as profitably looked at through the "egolessness" prism as through the "integrated" prism. Looking through the shu-ha-ri prism, I could see the top two boxes as being symptomatic of the "ha" stage: breaking the rules with grandiose intentions usually leads to worthless results? In this model, there are two paths out: a retreat from frustration, back into "shu", or a tunnelling through frustration, onwards into "ri"? (to what degree might tunnelling relate to LLM "double descent"?) Speaking of "weaponized curiosity", I once ran across a recommendation for determining which puppies to bother attempting to train as hunting dogs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488445 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488445
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
    ELI5 which features of double descent evoked tunnelling to you?
    - aebtebeten 10mo ago
      If we look at "twice made dips", we say two times as there is first a dip, then a peak (rise and dip), and then the next dip. This is like when one hops the band gap: there is first a free wave, then one that looks like it dies out, but if it is still a bit big by the end of the gap, then it goes on to the next free wave.
      - gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
        Bloch oscillations? Didn't see that coming tbh. ELIgs then
        aebtebeten 10mo ago
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
https://www.thenandnow.co/2023/06/24/adorno-and-horkheimer-dialectic-of-enlightenment-part-i/#:~:text=All%20the%20adventures%20Odysseus%20survives%20are%20dangerous%20temptations%20deflecting%20the%20self%20from%20the%20path%20of%20its%20logic https://www.thenandnow.co/2023/06/24/adorno-and-horkheimer-d... Not like water? Or just like water? https://archive.ph/2025.12.29-103422/https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%8A%E5%96%84%E8%8B%A5%E6%B0%B4/10744883#:~:text=%E5%A4%B1%E3%80%81%E7%BD%AA%E8%BF%87%E3%80%82-,Update%3A,-%E6%B0%B4%E4%B9%83%E5%A4%A9 https://archive.ph/2025.12.29-103422/https://baike.baidu.com... Could be explained by a dichotomy* between "intuition" and "deliberation" 刻意(尚行)? A sorta Buxton mechanism.. (intentionally avoiding "saddles" "minima" or whatnot :) The former "turns enlightenment into myth" (cf again Horkheimer+Adorno) *Gemini tells me that the best approx to "creative disruption" is [eu]kainotomia
- aebtebeten 10mo ago
  老子, despite being generally contra, had the option of deliberation; intuition* ("having the proper action in cache") was the only timescale available to Lee. * is it intuition, or is it following a geodesic on (your foliation of) the Lagrangian?
  - gsf_emergency_6 10mo ago
    Lee? Ah! (Was distracted by santu gonger <-> ) https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%89%E5%85%94%E5%9B%BE/10784891#:~:text=%E5%AE%87%E5%AE%99%E4%B8%AD%E3%80%82-,%E7%BB%86%E8%83%9E%E5%AD%98%E5%9C%A8%E5%9C%A8%E4%BA%BA%E4%BD%93%E4%B8%AD%E4%B8%80%E6%A0%B7%EF%BC%8C%E6%98%AF%E4%BA%92%E7%9B%B8%E8%81%94%E7%B3%BB%E7%9D%80%E7%9A%84%EF%BC%8C,-%E8%80%8C%E4%B8%89%E5%8F%AA https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%89%E5%85%94%E5%9B%BE/107... I'm still trying to internalize+merge the other sense of Lagrangian (as in "L submanifold")