8 ms·

Cosigned! Em dash forever! Along with en dash for numerical ranges, true ellipsis not that three-period crap, true typographic quotes, and all the trimmings! G

Cosigned! Em dash forever! Along with en dash for numerical ranges, true ellipsis not that three-period crap, true typographic quotes, and all the trimmings! Good typography whenever and wherever possible!

ademarre 10mo ago
I am all for using proper typographic symbols, but it is unclear what place the precomposed ellipsis U+2026—what I assume you mean by “true ellipsis”—has in that canon, especially with the compressed form it takes in most fonts.
infogulch 10mo ago
I agree we all ought to use available punctuation marks correctly. That said, I am compelled to lodge a formal complaint against quoted text arbitrarily assimilating punctuation from its surrounding context. Quoted text is a sacred verbatim reproduction of its original source. Good authors are very careful to insert [brackets] around words inserted to clarify or add context, and they never miss an oppurtunity (sic) to preserve the source's spelling or grammatical mistakes. And yet quoted text can just suck in a period, comma, or question mark from its quoted context, simply handing the quoting author the key to completely overturn the meaning of a sentence?! Nonsense! Whatever is between the quotes had better be an exact reproduction, save aforementioned exceptions and their explicit annotations. And dash that pathetic “bUt mUH aEstHeTIcS!” argument on the rocks! “But it's ugly!”, says you. “Your shallow subjective opinion of the visual appearance of so-called ugly punctuation sequences is irrelevant in the face of the immense opportunity for misbehavior this piffling preference provides perfidious publications.”, says I.
- andersa 10mo ago
  I completely agree, this is perhaps the least sensible part of common English syntax. "Hello," he said. "Hello", he said. Only one of these makes actual sense as a hierarchical grammar, and it's not the commonly accepted one! If enough of us do it correctly perhaps we can change it.
  - wvbdmp 10mo ago
    I’ve always wondered about this. I guess typographically they should just occupy the same horizontal space, or at least be kerned closer in such a way as to prevent the ugly holes without cramming. It’s true, though, that the hierarchically wrong option looks better, IMHO. The whitespace before the comma is intolerable. This is an interesting case where I am of two autistic hearts, the logical one slowly losing vehemence as I get older and become more accepting of traditions.
  - infogulch 10mo ago
    It's especially obvious as a programmer.
LanceH 10mo ago
And two spaces after a period! Who's with me?
- lametti 10mo ago
  Not Matthew Butterick (nor all major English-language style guides): https://practicaltypography.com/one-space-between-sentences.html https://practicaltypography.com/one-space-between-sentences.... I only discovered two spaces after a full stop/period was a thing after moving to the U.S., and only apparently in people over 40.
  - stackghost 10mo ago
    It's how Millennials and our predecessors were taught to type in school, and it's muscle memory. Very hard to unlearn.
    - LanceH 10mo ago
      It's not that I have any trouble doing one or two spaces. I just think it's a bit arrogant of any group to decide something is "wrong". Also, Pluto is still a planet because the new planet definition is absolutely stupid, and it wasn't really their word to work with anyway.
  - BeetleB 10mo ago
    I learned of it only by learning by Emacs! There are movement keys to move the to the next/previous sentence, and I wasn't understanding why they never worked for me.
jcheng 10mo ago
And text figures! And proper small caps!!
wdporter 10mo ago
Agreed. Good typography is good writing.
pwdisswordfishy 10mo ago
En dash for ranges is too easily confused for a minus sign. I would rather use a different symbol altogether.

ademarre 10mo ago

I am all for using proper typographic symbols, but it is unclear what place the precomposed ellipsis U+2026—what I assume you mean by “true ellipsis”—has in that canon, especially with the compressed form it takes in most fonts.

infogulch 10mo ago

I agree we all ought to use available punctuation marks correctly. That said, I am compelled to lodge a formal complaint against quoted text arbitrarily assimilating punctuation from its surrounding context. Quoted text is a sacred verbatim reproduction of its original source. Good authors are very careful to insert [brackets] around words inserted to clarify or add context, and they never miss an oppurtunity (sic) to preserve the source's spelling or grammatical mistakes. And yet quoted text can just suck in a period, comma, or question mark from its quoted context, simply handing the quoting author the key to completely overturn the meaning of a sentence?! Nonsense! Whatever is between the quotes had better be an exact reproduction, save aforementioned exceptions and their explicit annotations. And dash that pathetic “bUt mUH aEstHeTIcS!” argument on the rocks! “But it's ugly!”, says you. “Your shallow subjective opinion of the visual appearance of so-called ugly punctuation sequences is irrelevant in the face of the immense opportunity for misbehavior this piffling preference provides perfidious publications.”, says I.

andersa 10mo ago
I completely agree, this is perhaps the least sensible part of common English syntax. "Hello," he said. "Hello", he said. Only one of these makes actual sense as a hierarchical grammar, and it's not the commonly accepted one! If enough of us do it correctly perhaps we can change it.
- wvbdmp 10mo ago
  I’ve always wondered about this. I guess typographically they should just occupy the same horizontal space, or at least be kerned closer in such a way as to prevent the ugly holes without cramming. It’s true, though, that the hierarchically wrong option looks better, IMHO. The whitespace before the comma is intolerable. This is an interesting case where I am of two autistic hearts, the logical one slowly losing vehemence as I get older and become more accepting of traditions.
- infogulch 10mo ago
  It's especially obvious as a programmer.

LanceH 10mo ago

And two spaces after a period! Who's with me?

lametti 10mo ago
Not Matthew Butterick (nor all major English-language style guides): https://practicaltypography.com/one-space-between-sentences.html https://practicaltypography.com/one-space-between-sentences.... I only discovered two spaces after a full stop/period was a thing after moving to the U.S., and only apparently in people over 40.
- stackghost 10mo ago
  It's how Millennials and our predecessors were taught to type in school, and it's muscle memory. Very hard to unlearn.
  - LanceH 10mo ago
    It's not that I have any trouble doing one or two spaces. I just think it's a bit arrogant of any group to decide something is "wrong". Also, Pluto is still a planet because the new planet definition is absolutely stupid, and it wasn't really their word to work with anyway.
- BeetleB 10mo ago
  I learned of it only by learning by Emacs! There are movement keys to move the to the next/previous sentence, and I wasn't understanding why they never worked for me.

jcheng 10mo ago

And text figures! And proper small caps!!

wdporter 10mo ago

Agreed. Good typography is good writing.

pwdisswordfishy 10mo ago

En dash for ranges is too easily confused for a minus sign. I would rather use a different symbol altogether.