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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V._Shaney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V._Shaney Pike, stone throwing, glass houses, etc. The AI village experiment i

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V._Shaney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V._Shaney Pike, stone throwing, glass houses, etc. The AI village experiment is cool, and it's a useful example of frontier model capabilities. It's also ok not to like things. Pike had the option of ignoring it, but apparently throwing a thoughtless, hypocritical, incoherently targeted tantrum is the appropriate move? Not a great look, especially for someone we're supposed to respect as an elder.

PunchyHamster 10mo ago
I don't think he stole entirety of published copyrighted works to make it
KaiserPro 10mo ago
Its not really a glass house. Pike's main point is that training AI at that scale requires huge amounts of resources. Markov chains did not.
- preommr 10mo ago
  At the risk of being pedantic, it's not AI that requires massive resources, chatgpt 3.x was trained on a few million dollars. The jump to trillions being table stakes happened because everyone started using free services and there was just too much money in the hands of these tech companies. Among other things. There are so many chickens that are coming home to roost where LLMs was just the catalyst.
  - KaiserPro 10mo ago
    > it's not AI that requires massive resources no it really is. If you took away training costs, OpenAI would be profitable. When I was at meta they were putting in something like 300k GPUs in a massive shared memory cluster just for training. I think they are planning to triple that, if not more.
  - YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
    Yeah for some reason AI energy use is so overreported. Using chatgpt for query does not even use two order of magnitude less energy compared to toasting a bread. And you can eat bread untoasted too if you care about energy use. [1]: https://epoch.ai/gradient-updates/how-much-energy-does-chatgpt-use https://epoch.ai/gradient-updates/how-much-energy-does-chatg...
    - ori_b 10mo ago
      How many slices of toast are you making a day? If you fly a plane a millimeter, you're using less energy than making a slice of toast; would you also say that it's accurate that all global plane travel is more efficient than making toast?
      - YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
        1-2 slice a day and 1-50 chatgpt query per day. For me it would be within same order of magnitude, and I don't really care about both as both of them are dwarfed by my heater or aircon usage.
    - KaiserPro 10mo ago
      From my estimation each second of gpt eats about 0.5-1.5 watthours
      - YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
        You can say it takes 1800-5400 W. Not sure where you are estimating it from.
        KaiserPro 10mo ago
        Depending on what you're doing its taking up to 8GPUs working in parallel to serve those queries.
        YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
bgwalter 10mo ago
This is really getting desperate. Markov chains were fun in those days. You might as well say that anyone who ever wrote an IRC bot is not allowed to criticize current day "AI".
- observationist 10mo ago
  Pike's posts aren't criticism, they're whinging. There's no reasoned, principled position there - he's just upset that an AI dared sully his inbox, and lashing out at the operators.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - tmseidman 10mo ago
    On the contrary, there's absolutely a reasoned, principled position here. Pike isn't a hypocrite for creating a Markov chain bot trained on the contents of an ancient public domain work and the contents of a single usenet group, and still complaining about modern LLMs; there's a huge difference in legality and scale. Modern LLMs use orders of magnitude more resources and are trained on protected material. Now, I don't think he was writing a persuasive piece about this here, I think he was just venting. But I also feel like he has a reason to vent. I get upset about this stuff too, I just don't get emails implying that I helped bring about the whole situation.
    - nmstoker 10mo ago
      How is this substantively different from the endless spam we all receive from clueless illiterate spammers?
- tensor 10mo ago
  Do you think it was "fun" for the people whose time got wasted interacting with something they initially thought was a person? On a dating website? Sure, "trolling" people was a thing back then like it is now, but trolling was always and still is asshole behaviour.
NegativeK 10mo ago
I think you're misrepresenting what Pike is mad about, why he's as mad as he is, and what Markov bots are.
emp17344 10mo ago
They effectively set up a spambot. It’s ok for him to be upset.

PunchyHamster 10mo ago

I don't think he stole entirety of published copyrighted works to make it

KaiserPro 10mo ago

Its not really a glass house. Pike's main point is that training AI at that scale requires huge amounts of resources. Markov chains did not.

preommr 10mo ago
At the risk of being pedantic, it's not AI that requires massive resources, chatgpt 3.x was trained on a few million dollars. The jump to trillions being table stakes happened because everyone started using free services and there was just too much money in the hands of these tech companies. Among other things. There are so many chickens that are coming home to roost where LLMs was just the catalyst.
- KaiserPro 10mo ago
  > it's not AI that requires massive resources no it really is. If you took away training costs, OpenAI would be profitable. When I was at meta they were putting in something like 300k GPUs in a massive shared memory cluster just for training. I think they are planning to triple that, if not more.
- YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
  Yeah for some reason AI energy use is so overreported. Using chatgpt for query does not even use two order of magnitude less energy compared to toasting a bread. And you can eat bread untoasted too if you care about energy use. [1]: https://epoch.ai/gradient-updates/how-much-energy-does-chatgpt-use https://epoch.ai/gradient-updates/how-much-energy-does-chatg...
  - ori_b 10mo ago
    How many slices of toast are you making a day? If you fly a plane a millimeter, you're using less energy than making a slice of toast; would you also say that it's accurate that all global plane travel is more efficient than making toast?
    - YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
      1-2 slice a day and 1-50 chatgpt query per day. For me it would be within same order of magnitude, and I don't really care about both as both of them are dwarfed by my heater or aircon usage.
  - KaiserPro 10mo ago
    From my estimation each second of gpt eats about 0.5-1.5 watthours
    - YetAnotherNick 10mo ago
      You can say it takes 1800-5400 W. Not sure where you are estimating it from.
      - KaiserPro 10mo ago
        Depending on what you're doing its taking up to 8GPUs working in parallel to serve those queries.
        YetAnotherNick 10mo ago

bgwalter 10mo ago

This is really getting desperate. Markov chains were fun in those days. You might as well say that anyone who ever wrote an IRC bot is not allowed to criticize current day "AI".

observationist 10mo ago
Pike's posts aren't criticism, they're whinging. There's no reasoned, principled position there - he's just upset that an AI dared sully his inbox, and lashing out at the operators.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- tmseidman 10mo ago
  On the contrary, there's absolutely a reasoned, principled position here. Pike isn't a hypocrite for creating a Markov chain bot trained on the contents of an ancient public domain work and the contents of a single usenet group, and still complaining about modern LLMs; there's a huge difference in legality and scale. Modern LLMs use orders of magnitude more resources and are trained on protected material. Now, I don't think he was writing a persuasive piece about this here, I think he was just venting. But I also feel like he has a reason to vent. I get upset about this stuff too, I just don't get emails implying that I helped bring about the whole situation.
  - nmstoker 10mo ago
    How is this substantively different from the endless spam we all receive from clueless illiterate spammers?
tensor 10mo ago
Do you think it was "fun" for the people whose time got wasted interacting with something they initially thought was a person? On a dating website? Sure, "trolling" people was a thing back then like it is now, but trolling was always and still is asshole behaviour.

NegativeK 10mo ago

I think you're misrepresenting what Pike is mad about, why he's as mad as he is, and what Markov bots are.

emp17344 10mo ago

They effectively set up a spambot. It’s ok for him to be upset.