5 ms·

Especially as congress has, for as long as I remember, been about the superset of infosec, society, art, etc. IMHO it's more along the lines of complaining abou

Especially as congress has, for as long as I remember, been about the superset of infosec, society, art, etc. IMHO it's more along the lines of complaining about any ride that isn't a roller coaster at a theme park--no one is forcing you to go on any rides, other people clearly enjoy them, they're not taking anything away from your roller coaster, and having them increases the diversity of the crowd in an ultimately positive-for-everyone way. Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today.

holowoodman 9mo ago
Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. That is the real problem. > Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today. You could never do that. A few years ago, some activists tried to make a fuzz with stuff like creeper cards, intervention teams and codes of conduct. But those were never needed in the first place, almost nothing ever happened at CCC that would have warranted those things. But "those white male hackers are certainly sexist raping pigs" is a firmly entrenched stereotype in certain circles. The one thing you cannot ever do is go to CCC and express any idea that isn't very far left. That is a very certain way to get thrown out. Your talk won't ever be on the Fahrplan if the topic isn't "hooray, more refugees", "hooray, more EU dictatorship" or "hooray, down with everything right of Rosa Luxemburg".
- saubeidl 9mo ago
  The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the right wing extremists set the narrative! Don't listen to their complaints about things being too "political" or "far left". It's all just a tactic in their march towards fascism.
  - toxik 9mo ago
    You could use exactly the same rhetoric to make the opposite argument.
    - saubeidl 9mo ago
      Sure, but you would be denying reality. Look at the political reality in Europe and the US. How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?
      - 2780781306408 9mo ago
        [flagged]
      - brendoelfrendo 9mo ago
        > How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left? Since you asked the question, I assume you have an answer, and I'm curious to hear it. I imagine it will reveal more about your personal politics than any observable political reality.
      - jasonvorhe 9mo ago
        Just because you don't see the "far left" doesn't mean it isn't there. Would you consider CDU in Germany to be conservative or even Christian right now? I've been far left all my life until I noticed how fake it all is. Sane goes for the right. now I'm just following truth. It's a lonely path. All the best & I hope you had a Merry Christmas as well.
        immibis 9mo ago
        CDU is not far left. It's reducing immigration, reducing social services, and removing bike lanes to make more room for cars. Not things the left is known for - but they are things the right is known for. The best thing the right has done to advance its cause is to convince so many people that the words "right" and "left" don't have actual meanings.
      - 9mo ago
- throw-the-towel 9mo ago
  > Your talk won't ever be on the Fahrplan if the topic isn't [...] "hooray, more EU dictatorship" There is a talk on Chat Control though?..
- farhaven 9mo ago
  > Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. I don't know which past Chaos Communication Congresses you have attended, but it always was. If that's not for you, then that's too bad. > The one thing you cannot ever do is go to CCC and express any idea that isn't very far left. That is a very certain way to get thrown out. Opinions that people get thrown out for are not "I love my country" or "hey, maybe immigration should be handled differently". They're things like "Hitler was ok, actually". And IMO if a conference doesn't throw you out for _that_, it's not one worth attending.
- plastic-enjoyer 9mo ago
  > Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground Which is fucking based. Being a radical leftist should be normalized even more and people like you need to be driven out of _every_ fucking public space.
- rumgewieselt 9mo ago
  There is no radical left or radical right; there is only right and wrong! If you don’t understand human rights and realize that you are not the only person or creature on this planet, you need to change your point of view.

holowoodman 9mo ago

Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. That is the real problem. > Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today. You could never do that. A few years ago, some activists tried to make a fuzz with stuff like creeper cards, intervention teams and codes of conduct. But those were never needed in the first place, almost nothing ever happened at CCC that would have warranted those things. But "those white male hackers are certainly sexist raping pigs" is a firmly entrenched stereotype in certain circles. The one thing you cannot ever do is go to CCC and express any idea that isn't very far left. That is a very certain way to get thrown out. Your talk won't ever be on the Fahrplan if the topic isn't "hooray, more refugees", "hooray, more EU dictatorship" or "hooray, down with everything right of Rosa Luxemburg".

saubeidl 9mo ago
The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the right wing extremists set the narrative! Don't listen to their complaints about things being too "political" or "far left". It's all just a tactic in their march towards fascism.
- toxik 9mo ago
  You could use exactly the same rhetoric to make the opposite argument.
  - saubeidl 9mo ago
    Sure, but you would be denying reality. Look at the political reality in Europe and the US. How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?
    - 2780781306408 9mo ago
      [flagged]
    - brendoelfrendo 9mo ago
      > How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left? Since you asked the question, I assume you have an answer, and I'm curious to hear it. I imagine it will reveal more about your personal politics than any observable political reality.
    - jasonvorhe 9mo ago
      Just because you don't see the "far left" doesn't mean it isn't there. Would you consider CDU in Germany to be conservative or even Christian right now? I've been far left all my life until I noticed how fake it all is. Sane goes for the right. now I'm just following truth. It's a lonely path. All the best & I hope you had a Merry Christmas as well.
      - immibis 9mo ago
        CDU is not far left. It's reducing immigration, reducing social services, and removing bike lanes to make more room for cars. Not things the left is known for - but they are things the right is known for. The best thing the right has done to advance its cause is to convince so many people that the words "right" and "left" don't have actual meanings.
    - 9mo ago
throw-the-towel 9mo ago
> Your talk won't ever be on the Fahrplan if the topic isn't [...] "hooray, more EU dictatorship" There is a talk on Chat Control though?..
farhaven 9mo ago
> Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. I don't know which past Chaos Communication Congresses you have attended, but it always was. If that's not for you, then that's too bad. > The one thing you cannot ever do is go to CCC and express any idea that isn't very far left. That is a very certain way to get thrown out. Opinions that people get thrown out for are not "I love my country" or "hey, maybe immigration should be handled differently". They're things like "Hitler was ok, actually". And IMO if a conference doesn't throw you out for _that_, it's not one worth attending.
plastic-enjoyer 9mo ago
> Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground Which is fucking based. Being a radical leftist should be normalized even more and people like you need to be driven out of _every_ fucking public space.
rumgewieselt 9mo ago
There is no radical left or radical right; there is only right and wrong! If you don’t understand human rights and realize that you are not the only person or creature on this planet, you need to change your point of view.