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> with mitigations to prevent unsigned OSes There is literally an apple-developed way to boot securely into alternative OSs. How would asahi work otherwise? A

by gf000 10mo ago

> with mitigations to prevent unsigned OSes There is literally an apple-developed way to boot securely into alternative OSs. How would asahi work otherwise? Also, if only apple is hostile, where is my Xbox/ps/switch/any random Android tablet/million other device's running Linux?

bigyabai 10mo ago
> There is literally an apple-developed way to boot securely into alternative OSs This is not a good thing! You do not want a proprietary bootloader as your only way to launch Linux, it's not a safe or permanent solution. Apple Silicon could have implemented UEFI like the previous Macs did, but Apple chose to lock users into a bootloader they controlled. This is markedly different from most ARM device bootloaders which aren't changed by an OTA update in another OS partition. > if only apple is hostile I did not say that at any point in my comment. Forgeties original claim was that Apple Silicon would eventually have support comparable to Intel Macbooks on Linux. I am telling them point-blank that it is impossible, because Apple and Intel have fundamentally different attitudes towards Linux. > where is my Xbox/ps/switch/any random Android tablet/million other device's running Linux? Your Switch and Android tablet is already running the Linux kernel. The past 2 generations of Xbox and PS chipsets have upstream support from AMD in the Linux kernel, so you really only need a working bootloader to get everything working. Ironically, this does mean that the Nintendo Switch has more comprehensive Linux support than Apple Silicon does.
- gf000 10mo ago
  Sure, the kernel. But you surely know that android abstracts away the drivers, so without the proprietary drivers you are back to square zero - it's not "GNU/Linux".
  - bigyabai 10mo ago
    But you didn't say GNU/Linux, which surely you know is an arbitrarily high bar for any hardware to attain. My point still stands, Apple does not trust their customers.

by gf000 10mo ago

bigyabai 10mo ago

> There is literally an apple-developed way to boot securely into alternative OSs This is not a good thing! You do not want a proprietary bootloader as your only way to launch Linux, it's not a safe or permanent solution. Apple Silicon could have implemented UEFI like the previous Macs did, but Apple chose to lock users into a bootloader they controlled. This is markedly different from most ARM device bootloaders which aren't changed by an OTA update in another OS partition. > if only apple is hostile I did not say that at any point in my comment. Forgeties original claim was that Apple Silicon would eventually have support comparable to Intel Macbooks on Linux. I am telling them point-blank that it is impossible, because Apple and Intel have fundamentally different attitudes towards Linux. > where is my Xbox/ps/switch/any random Android tablet/million other device's running Linux? Your Switch and Android tablet is already running the Linux kernel. The past 2 generations of Xbox and PS chipsets have upstream support from AMD in the Linux kernel, so you really only need a working bootloader to get everything working. Ironically, this does mean that the Nintendo Switch has more comprehensive Linux support than Apple Silicon does.

gf000 10mo ago
Sure, the kernel. But you surely know that android abstracts away the drivers, so without the proprietary drivers you are back to square zero - it's not "GNU/Linux".
- bigyabai 10mo ago
  But you didn't say GNU/Linux, which surely you know is an arbitrarily high bar for any hardware to attain. My point still stands, Apple does not trust their customers.