4 ms·
I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longe
by Esophagus4 10mo ago
I thought Framework was worth a gamble.
I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going.
(I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that crack, USB-C and no USB-A...) so I spec'ed out my Framework with USB-C and USB-A.)
But aside from repairability when stuff breaks, a laptop's hardware slowly becomes obsolete because software is usually written for the new stuff. If you're like me and you keep your laptop for 10 years, that means: in year 1 you have 1 year old hardware, in year 6 you have 6 year old hardware, etc. So your laptop gets worse and worse performance because you can't incrementally upgrade your hardware... you only upgrade in a big bang every 10 years when you buy a new one. Towards the end of its life, you're really struggling to keep the thing above water.
With a Framework, in theory I can upgrade the hardware incrementally over time rather than needing a big bang every 10 years. So instead of having 6 year old hardware at year 6, I'll probably have 2 year old hardware again. So I'll more closely match the industry improvements curve.
Will this work in reality? Will it be expensive to replace all the parts, and will the case be able to cool new CPUs, and will I have to get a new mainboard, etc? Who knows. But I thought it was interesting enough to take a gamble on the laptop. And worst case, it's not a fatal decision... I can just go back to MacBooks...
- Etheryte 10mo agoI can't even recall when I last needed USB-A, literally everything I have uses USB-C (or bluetooth for mouse and keyboard). What do you use it for?
- nrp 10mo agoUSB-A is our second most popular Expansion Card after USB-C (and before HDMI), so certainly people are using it for something!
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- nehal3m 10mo agoI'm not trying to sit in my arm chair and act like I know better, but do you think it's possible people order those just in case?
- coldpie 10mo agoI have a stash of USB keyboards and mice in my closet, gathered from various sources for free. They're all USB-A because they're like 15 years old. The SD card reader I got somewhere ages ago is USB-A. My Xbox 360 controller is USB-A. So I got a USB-A module. Shrug.
- lucb1e 10mo agoHi it's me from the past. I daily drive a VGA screen and a USB-A hub that connects my USB-A mouse and USB-A keyboard. My µSD-card reader uses USB-A. Ethernet adapter (for when I need a second NIC) is also USB-A but it came with an adapter to C so I have a choice there. All USB sticks I've ever seen are A, as well as all external hard drives. My charging cables are predominantly USB-A to micro, and nowadays I also need C for my phone. It's a bit annoying to need that extra C charging cable everywhere after we had already standardized on micro (except for Apple), but at least there's one standard now (xkcd.com/927) after the current devices die Edit: forgot the printer. I connect it via USB-A on demand. /edit. My laptop (bought this year) charges via a DC barrel jack, afaik because USB-C doesn't deliver enough power for peak usage. Buying a little HDMI-VGA converter was a lot cheaper than throwing a perfectly good screen away. My keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals also simply still work, seems silly to replace them just to get a C variant when 700-1300€ laptops have 1 or 2 C ports and always 2 A ports (I happen to be up-to-date on that, at least, because I helped someone select a new laptop ereyesterday) I don't know what I'd need more than one C port for but I'm very happy that there is more than one A port on my laptop. Add in the standard set of 3.5mm jack, HDMI, ethernet, card reader, and charging, and you're already at more ports than even the new Framework 16 can physically fit in its frame, let alone nerd ports like serial or a second ethernet port. I considered buying a double-priced Framework earlier this year for the linux support and upgradeability (I really support their goal and would pay that premium if it were a suitable system) but this is one of the main reasons it just doesn't work for me: I'm actually a power user that regularly uses these connections and more
- Esophagus4 10mo agoI still do have a few USB-A: Yubikey, mouse receiver, Streamdeck, USB sticks, webcam, old HDD hard drives I use for backups... I guess I could, but I would rather not upgrade all of those to USB-C and I really tired of having to carry dongles everywhere. I even like that if I were consistently using HDMI, I could actually just put an HDMI extension card into my laptop and still not need a dongle. It's customizable to my usage at any point in the laptop's life.
- ajross 10mo agoEven limiting discussion to "routine consumer use": Mouse and keyboard dongles, USB sticks for copying things off the scanner or 3D printer or whatever. Joysticks and game controllers still live in drawers and come out every once in a while. These things are still Just Not Made in USB-C except in a handful of weird devices. And even then, I'm not re-buying junk that works. I just swapped for a webcam that has a C cable, and ironically it's being used with an adapter because the integrated hub on the KVM switch is A-only. Also dev tasks like flashing bootable ChromeOS and linux images pretty regularly, connecting to a Flyswatter JTAG adapter, UART adapters, etc... USB-A was actually a really great plug and objectively works better for a lot of applications than the tiny C connector.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- distances 10mo agoI use USB-A for mouse and keyboard, so I need at least two ports. Both are much better with a cord.
- Esophagus4 10mo agoSomething about bluetooth keyboards... they're just awful. Laggy and glitchy things.
- safety1st 10mo agoWhat I have plugged in via USB-A right now: Ethernet adapter; Generic gamepad; Logitech wireless keyboard receiver; Sony waterproof Walkman cradle.
- neogodless 10mo agoCurrent items in my possession that are still in use and use USB-A * keyboard * mouse dongle * webcam * microphone * mouse charging cable * smart watch charging cable * SATA hard drive dock * 32GB and 64GB USB memory sticks Things that use USB-C * new SD card reader * new headphones dongle * smart phone charging cable Some of the above could maybe be replaced with a USB-C equivalent, but they are still working and I'm still using them. Why waste money and create waste replacing them?
- kstrauser 10mo agoI bought a USB-C hub so I can slowly migrate to the current format as I replace the old devices.
- neogodless 10mo agoI mean I have a perfectly good USB-A hub that is still working and doesn't need replaced either ;) 4-ports -- supports webcam, microphone, keyboard with no issues.
- makeitdouble 10mo agoBluetooth is too flaky for such critical inputs. Dongles will usually bring higer polling, less interference/2.4Ghz connectivity and lower load on the host system. Sadly most are USB-A plugs. Bluetooth being cnstantly used for audio and so many other things as well might also be at play ?
- systemtest 10mo agoIsn't that more due to the Bluetooth hardware used and implementation on the OS side? On macOS I never had flakyness with Bluetooth keyboards but on Windows my experience was significantly worse.
- makeitdouble 10mo agoIt might as well be, though Bluetooth is kinda hit or miss in general IMHO. On Macos, first party peripherals have of course pretty good connectivity (is it even straight Bluetooth?) but it's not perfect either, and third party ones have a tougher time. I wondered how much it was just me, apparently we were dozens: https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/17659mx/sonoma_bluetooth_keyboard_lag/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/17659mx/sonoma_bluet...
- bluescrn 10mo agoMost flash drives and wired mice/keyboards are still USB-A. And people have huge piles of charging cables that are USB-A to micro/mini USB or USB-C.
- systemtest 10mo agoI assume you are talking about legacy devices? I haven't purchased a keyboard in the past ten years with USB-A. Everything is USB-C for charging/data and Bluetooth.
- distances 10mo agoI think new devices are primarily USB-A too? All my keyboards and mice are A, also the one I bought this year: https://perixx.com/products/periboard-535 https://perixx.com/products/periboard-535
- systemtest 10mo agoWow. A device in 2025 with a non-detachable USB-A cable? That sounds like a horrible design decision from both a repairability and future-proofing standpoint. My keyboard has a USB-C port on the side so you can plug in whatever cable you want, A or C, long, short, curled, braided. It even connects to my phone without dongles.
- distances 10mo agoYeah I agree a detachable cable would've been better. The keyboard itself is very good though, I'm quite happy with it!
- Xerox9213 10mo agoReplacing a CPU means replacing a motherboard - this is mostly true for desktops too. And by the time you’re ready for a new CPU there is almost certainly a new type of RAM to get.
- Esophagus4 10mo agoUnderstood - a new mainboard on the Framework website is around $700, which I still prefer to a new laptop. I'd be willing to pay more over time to have better hardware over my laptop's life. Meaning, I'd rather pay ~$3200 over 10 years for a Framework + 2 mainboard upgrades + a RAM upgrade vs ~$2000 for a laptop that slowly gets worse over the same time period.
- neogodless 10mo agoAt least with desktop you sometimes get a CPU upgrade path. For example, with Socket 939, I started with an Athlon 64 3000+, and upgraded later to an X2 4200+. With Socket AM4, I skipped the first generation, got a Ryzen 2700X, then skipped the next generation, and then got a Ryzen 5900X! (But a solid 4 generations on the same socket!)
- hombre_fatal 10mo agoThe problem is that the Framework starts so far behind in performance and battery efficiency of a cheaper Macbook that you aren’t saving money on perf upgrades. You really do have to buy it for the idea rather than the reality.
- qchris 10mo agoI don't love this comparison, because I have to use Linux, not Mac. It's not really optional for me, and Asahi simply isn't far enough along to fill the gap. As a result, the question is more Framework vs. Dell or Lenovo, and that creates a much smaller gap in capability in the 13" form factor.
- ashirviskas 10mo agoWhere is Asahi not far enough if I may ask? I've been daily driving it for 2 years by this point. While it was not really useable for mainstream usecases in the beginning (no speakers, no webcam, other random issues), it did get better month by month and problems got resolved, I find useability equal to my x86 laptops now.
- p_j_w 10mo agoDoesn’t work on anything newer than an M2, for starters.
- apublicfrog 10mo agoWe were talking about performance and battery efficiency for cost. I don't know, but I'd reasonably assume an M2 Macbook wins on these ratios.
- hypercube33 10mo agoSide complaint: I'm irked that the smaller surface laptop didn't continue with custom AMD chips since they were getting quite powerful in the last one. Other complaint is that because of comments here I went looking at framework but it doesn't show what GPU comes with AMD processors so I'm going to have to not look at this on mobile. I have a Thinkpad, Asus and surface 13" amd and none have fully scratched the itch for my go to machine. Asus is powerful enough but the build quality and durability are pure garbage.
- commandersaki 10mo agoWill this work in reality? Will it be expensive to replace all the parts, and will the case be able to cool new CPUs, and will I have to get a new mainboard, etc? When a $39 hinge kit costs $70 after shipping, it sounds unlikely I'll be buying replacement parts from Framework, and there's really no 3rd party marketplace either.