6 ms·
The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I ma
by astra1701 9mo ago
The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilot key.
This approach even allows the manufacturer to correct design flaws after the fact -- and let's face it, there will always be design flaws. For instance, my FW13 originally came with a very weak hinge for the screen. It was perfectly usable for most daily usage and most people probably wouldn't care, but it meant I couldn't hold it up without the screen tilting back. Well, FW corrected this for those customers who really did care by just selling a new hinge for $24, and so $24 + 10 minutes with a screwdriver later, I had a substantially more refined device! (And to clarify -- there was a defective hinge version in the early batches, and those were replaced free of charge. Mine was a slightly later version that, beyond lacking the level of stiffness I preferred, was not defective.)
- Esophagus4 9mo agoExactly - imagine if early MacBook Butterfly keyboard users had the option to simply upgrade their keyboard to a fixed version for $40... [1]https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/ https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/
- vermon 9mo agoOne of the white Macbooks used 50 screws to fasten the keyboard. Once I spilled some juice on it and had to replace it. Took forever, but at least back then it was not too expensive or difficult.
- linsomniac 9mo agoCould have been worse: I replaced a keyboard for a friends daughter and her Dell had ~50 plastic studs holding the keyboard in place, each one was melted rivet-style. I had to remove enough that I could get the keyboard out, but not so much that there wasn't still plastic to melt to hold the new keyboard in place.
- moltopoco 9mo agoBeing able to replace the keyboard is especially wonderful because laptops are usually "region-locked". I know people who use relatively unpopular layouts relative to where they live, and it makes it harder to buy and much harder to sell their Macs.
- encom 9mo agoThis curse extends to mechanical keyboards as well. There exists all sorts of fancy, beautiful and odd keycap sets... for Americans. Some times for German and French. If I get really lucky, I'll find some with a "Nordic" layout, which is an abomination that combines dk/se/no.
- gunalx 9mo agoNot a us user, but ended up with us and uk layout, just because they where easier to find. (also works fine for programming)
- encom 9mo agoYea, the danish layout is objectively terrible[1], but I have many decades of muscle memory with it now... [1] Shift+7 == /, AltGr+¨ == ~. These two in particular are tedious as a Linux user.
- dontlaugh 9mo agoThe solution is to get blank keycaps. Then it doesn’t matter.
- eterm 9mo agoIt does matter, because the phyiscal keys themselves are literally in different places. Comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1DL1fO6Zs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1DL1fO6Zs Note that weird abomination of a backslash key around the enter key on the US keyboard. There's no way to just map the US keyboard to the UK one.
- humanfromearth9 9mo agoI assume not just replace, but upgrade, in some cases
- giancarlostoro 9mo agoYou can swap out the motherboard, so yeah. Not sure how long they support specific Laptop bodies (or frames) for but I would imagine some of their frames are good for a long minute.
- SV_BubbleTime 9mo agoThe motherboards are often 80%+ the cost of an entire new machine though.
- giancarlostoro 9mo agoProbably because they include the CPU if I am not mistaken, but probably makes sense and is worth the hassle if your concern is your CPU / main hardware is falling behind.
- SV_BubbleTime 9mo agoDoes that make sense? Because for another $200-300, you get a new chassis, keyboard, monitor, touchpad, webcam, antennas, and whatever else. It’s kind of a bad deal.
- fullstop 9mo agoI was hoping that this is how it would work for System76 -- when I bought the laptop they sold replacement batteries. Five years later I find myself needing a battery and they are unavailable -- not on System76's website, not online, nowhere. My only option is to either replace the laptop or buy a used one and take the battery from that, hoping that it's good. For the last six months I've just been using a laptop as a mini pc with no battery.
- cogman10 9mo agoFWIW, I have a 5 year old dell XPS whose battery I could both find an replace easily. That is one of the advantages of the bigger name brands, replacement parts are generally a lot easier to find.
- fullstop 9mo agoI was in it to support the company and their goals, but the experience was a little souring.
- happymellon 9mo agoAren't System76 laptops just rebranded Cleo, which is why there is no design consistency? They don't manufacture batteries and never have, I've always had mixed feelings when it comes to "supporting their goals". I appreciate their work to get Linux working on those models, but they can't provide long term hardware support.
- fullstop 9mo agoThey are, but a selling point at the time was that you could buy replacement parts from System76.
- Wingman4l7 9mo agoYeah, but is it OEM? Even big names like Dell don't support their parts for that long, and you have to resort to getting sketchy third-party parts from China, or rolling the dice on a used OEM part.
- shriek 9mo agoYep, did the same thing too. It's nice that you just need one tool to unscrew, screw things and everything is labelled well that you don't need to go dig to multiple websites on how to do repair/replace parts. But of all things, replacing keyboard was the most tedious one in framework with so many screws, haha.
- dvorka 9mo agoIt depends on vendor really - I have Lenovo T480 and I replaced keyboard earlier this year (there are various options like w/ or w/o backlit + layout (I'm Czech), I have 2 batteries - one for "normal" use and extended one (in size and capacity) for traveling, changing multiple SSDs and RAM is possible (not soldered)... it's not framework, but easily fixable and Linux friendly HW.
- eduction 9mo agoT480 is indeed superb (except for being on the heavy side). I accidentally hurled my phone into the screen (both were on the bed and I shook the sheets trying to find the beeping phone). The replacement screen was like $75 and a 5 minute job. On MacBooks that’s typically closer to $600. I’ll probably replace it eventually with a t14 which is pretty light these days.
- smileson2 9mo agothe T series thinkpads tend to have a high repairability rating (9/10 on ifixit ) and easy affordable access to parts, it's the X series that's a PITA imo
- nullhole 9mo agoIs there any generally agreed upon and reliable source for replacement batteries? Given the fire risk, I'm much less willing to take the risk of substandard aftermarket parts when it comes to batteries. Lenovo stopped selling the batteries for the T480, so the only sources are various 3rd party manufacturers I've never heard of.
- adolph 9mo ago++on older Lenovo. Something that Framework might have after many years is a viable secondary and third party market for repair components. Lenovo has also done a great job with keeping their detailed service manuals online and available.
- testing22321 9mo agoI’ve always found this line of thinking to match up with drivers of old Land Rovers. The thinking goes they are brilliant because they are so easy to repair and parts are easy to source globally. While that’s true, I much prefer to drive vehicles that don’t need repairs.
- rowanG077 9mo agoThe problem is of course that no vehicles/devices as of now exist that are indestructible
- tempsaasexample 9mo agoTrue technically, but there's many people that almost enjoy working on their cars IF they are pleasant to work on. And some are. At that point the car is just an avenue for your hobby of working on cars. My parents have a Lexus RX400H (hybrid), that even for me as a car guy is a nightmare to work on. It's technically never had a fault since 2007 with 215k miles. But changing the spark plugs was probably the third hardest thing I've done with cars, only behind dropping a transmission and doing a head gasket job on other cars.
- SV_BubbleTime 9mo agoIt would also be apt if the handover cost $10,000 but the engine cost $9000. My framework 13 is OKAY. But the reality of it is the economics just don’t make sense with their pricing. The biggest thing people can comment on the keyboard is easily replaceable. That’s cool and I love the idea, but any vendor could do that part.
- Ritewut 9mo agoI had a Framework mainboard die and I was able to replace it myself with a free replacement they sent me without need to throw away the laptop. The economics make sense when you consider they don't get the priority for chips or the volume discounts that a company like Dell would get from AMD or Intel. They are getting scraps and doing what they can to make it work.
- schmuckonwheels 9mo agoYou're excited about the prospect of repairing a manufacturer's faulty engineering at your own cost? An analogy would be buying a new car then bragging to your friends that despite it being a lemon, you're thrilled because you can repair it yourself (at cost).
- uoaei 9mo agoThen you show them the long term amortized value of that car over its lifetime, not to mention waste reduction, and it starts to make more sense.
- davkan 9mo agoYou’re missing the common alternative in the modern age which is the manufacturer not selling the part at all and being left with a pile of unrepairable junk despite an otherwise functioning device. Laptop hinges were notorious for killing laptops for like a decade.
- function_seven 9mo ago"Lemon" was never mentioned. That's extreme. I don't care what make and model of car you choose, I'll show you a list of TSBs associated with that model. There's never been a car produced that was perfectly engineered and had no after-sale issues common to that model and year. There's always something. Yes, I would be thrilled to find a car that gave cheap and available replacement parts so I could remedy those issues later. That used to be the standard! The trend now is for automakers to keep juicing the proprietary software tools and one-off components, making repairability harder for the owner. So, to rephrase your analogy: "[That's like] buying a new car then bragging to your friends ... that you're thrilled because you can repair it yourself (at cost)."
- stavros 9mo agoOh this is great, my keyboard is flaking and the hinge is as you say, I didn't realize they'd fixed it. I'll do some shopping now, thanks!
- The_President 9mo agoThe latest version of the hinge is on the money.
- nly 9mo agoI replaced the keyboard in my 5 year old Dell laptop without difficulty. The battery as well (at the same time). It was an instant way to make it run and feel like new
- kiddico 9mo agoI could have had my hinge replaced for free? Crap lol
- maelito 9mo agoJust broke my control key. They're sending me a new keyboard (well the whole cover as chznging the keyboard is hard) as part of the EU garantee. Awesome. My last laptop had the same problem but the repair employee broke the whole computer when he came to replace the keyboard. Dell then did not want to accept their fault. Vive le framework.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 9mo agoWhat? How does that even survive legal scrutiny? They broke your laptop
- commandersaki 9mo agoIt would be nice to replace the keyboard with an inverted T-arrow layout and the fn as the leftmost corner key. Alas this third party parts manufacturer/supplier never took off.