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>You can't change the RAM on laptops now. >You can't change the SSD on laptops now. I literally just brought a laptop 3 weeks ago and I've already upgraded bot

>You can't change the RAM on laptops now. >You can't change the SSD on laptops now. I literally just brought a laptop 3 weeks ago and I've already upgraded both of those. It's a newer model with an RTX GPU. I think framework has potential, but it's going to be a decade to see how things pan out. Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? So far what I'm seeing is a laptop brand which charges between 50% and 100% more with strange customer support issues and a limited service network. If you're thinking about reducing waste , buy a refurbished Thinkpad.

newsclues 10mo ago
You can buy a new mainboard for a framework…
simonh 10mo ago
Or buy an up-specced conventional laptop with a ton more storage and RAM to start with for the same price. Get your upgrades in first at no extra cost. If you're getting a Framework with the top specs and can't get a competing laptop at higher spec cheaper, I can see the argument that you might benefit from the extra upgradability headroom. However that almost certainly means a mainboard upgrade, and I'd be concerned about the thermals of a current chassis with a hypothetical future mainboard.
- chocochunks 10mo ago
  Until recently with the recent madness it was almost always cheaper to buy a base model then upgrade RAM and storage yourself.
blauditore 10mo ago
In terms of hardware, there shouldn't be too many surprises. People have been doing this with desktop computers for ages, so it's known what it means to maintain and upgrade 10+ years old computers. I have one (desktop) that I'm using regularly, and did a few minor upgrades over the years. Of course, warranty and support quality is a different question.
kllrnohj 10mo ago
> Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? Maybe, but you can actually just upgrade the mainboard. Framework has already done that cycle a couple of times. And they made sure the mainboard can work without a battery (not exactly a high bar, but it's better than most), so your old mainboard can pop into a small case and get a second life as a NUC
- 999900000999 10mo ago
  The mainboards typically cost as much as a new laptop. What really excites me is the prospect of 3rd party mainboards and other components. This ecosystem is still just getting started though. It seems like this is the beta product, I'll wait for the finished one.
  - kllrnohj 10mo ago
    They don't? Ryzen 340 mainboard: $450 https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ai300?v=FRANTE0005 https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ai300?v=FRANTE0005 Ryzen 340 laptop: $1100 https://frame.work/products/laptop13-amd-ai300/configuration/new https://frame.work/products/laptop13-amd-ai300/configuration... Yeah it's certainly the single most expensive component, but it's still cheaper than a whole new laptop and, more to the point, less waste than a whole new laptop
    - 999900000999 10mo ago
      Your comparing Framework to itself. https://slickdeals.net/f/18984394-hp-omnibook-5-16-fhd-ips-ryzen-ai-7-350-16gb-lpddr5-512gb-ssd-439?src=category_page https://slickdeals.net/f/18984394-hp-omnibook-5-16-fhd-ips-r... HP OmniBook 5 16 with an Ryzen 350 for 439$. This is actually less than the framework mainboard for a full laptop with a better processor. This actually
      - ThePowerOfFuet 10mo ago
        But the rest of that machine is hot garbage.
rozenmd 10mo ago
I love my thinkpad, wrote up my experience with the Thinkpad T480 last year: https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t480 https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t... and a quick buyers guide here: https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for-under-500 https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for...
- Klonoar 10mo ago
  The HN thread responding to your T480 article is all that's needed to understand why it's not really a replacement for a MBP: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34878240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34878240
  - rozenmd 10mo ago
    I never said I replaced an MBP with it, but okay, yeah, the build quality is not the same.
- 999900000999 10mo ago
  Lenovo has fantastic recent refurbs. It's a bit of a game, but you can find some for around 400$ or less. My big beef with Macs is I need BIG ssds. If I want to get a 4TB SSD on a Macbook it starts at around 3000$. Recently I purchased a laptop with 2 SSD slots, although disappointingly only one is easy to access. I'm tempted to go to Microcenter and tell them to replace the stock SSD with a 4TB( the stock SSD is the one behind a difficult to remove heat sink), and then I'd put another 4 tb ssd. Alternatively I could just pay 800$ for a 8TB SSD, install it in a laptop that cost around 1300-1500$ and I'm only spending 2300$. On a Mac that's about 5000$. I make music and hate external drives with a passion.
coldpie 10mo ago
First, I think you're correct that a used/refurb Thinkpad is a good solution for many people. For me, what found attractive about the Framework is that I just don't like the idea of replacing my laptops wholesale. I like the little piecemeal upgrades that Framework offers. I like my tech to stay as unchanged as it can. I don't want to adjust to a new keyboard and touchpad and screen and charging situation all at the same time. I prefer the route of doing little upgrades over time, where things only change a little bit, when I'm ready for them to. Maybe next year I will upgrade the screen; maybe the next year I'll drop the USB-A module for something more useful; a couple years after that maybe I'll get a new mainboard; and all through this it's still the same laptop I've known and gotten used to. This is how I manage my desktop, and Framework lets me do the same with a laptop. It's just a personality thing I think. Framework's piecemeal upgrade story is more attractive to me, but I agree there's other routes for people with other priorities.
neogodless 10mo ago
I think laptop gamers, and developers that use gaming laptops for work machines are somewhat niche (and I'm in that niche). Because PC gamers often buy desktops. And console gamers buy consoles while handheld gamers buy handhelds and smartphone gamers... Then there are other kinds of laptop users... the various Macbook users from the lightweight travel Air to the beefy desktop replacement 16" Macbook Pro, and the Windows business laptop users, and the Linux laptop users. (I think we'd all do well to remember the variety in computers and computer users...) So yeah, I've rarely bought anything but a gaming laptop that could easily be upgraded via RAM or SSD, and when I've bought non-upgradeable laptops (a tiny Asus 2-in-1 touchscreen) I found it just wasn't for me and I ended up selling it. My favorite gaming laptops... Lenovo Legion 5 Pro, Acer Nitro 16. My spouse uses a Legion 5 Pro. My sister uses my 5+ year old Legion 5. They've all been a combination of good or great screen, great keyboard, good hardware, pretty quiet except when cranking up for demanding games, and so far all have been reliable, upgradeable, etc. We don't tend to use them on battery, but I've found that they tend to do 4-5 hours easily for basic usage. I wouldn't expect them to do well at all when pulling 100+ W for gaming. (My sister had an older Nitro and the quality was lacking, but I've been impressed by my 2023 model.)
- itbeho 10mo ago
  Another happy Legion 5 Pro user here. It's not terrible on battery, but not great either. I usually carry one of those 26Mah battery banks in my bag just in case.

newsclues 10mo ago

You can buy a new mainboard for a framework…

simonh 10mo ago

Or buy an up-specced conventional laptop with a ton more storage and RAM to start with for the same price. Get your upgrades in first at no extra cost. If you're getting a Framework with the top specs and can't get a competing laptop at higher spec cheaper, I can see the argument that you might benefit from the extra upgradability headroom. However that almost certainly means a mainboard upgrade, and I'd be concerned about the thermals of a current chassis with a hypothetical future mainboard.

chocochunks 10mo ago
Until recently with the recent madness it was almost always cheaper to buy a base model then upgrade RAM and storage yourself.

blauditore 10mo ago

In terms of hardware, there shouldn't be too many surprises. People have been doing this with desktop computers for ages, so it's known what it means to maintain and upgrade 10+ years old computers. I have one (desktop) that I'm using regularly, and did a few minor upgrades over the years. Of course, warranty and support quality is a different question.

kllrnohj 10mo ago

> Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? Maybe, but you can actually just upgrade the mainboard. Framework has already done that cycle a couple of times. And they made sure the mainboard can work without a battery (not exactly a high bar, but it's better than most), so your old mainboard can pop into a small case and get a second life as a NUC

999900000999 10mo ago
The mainboards typically cost as much as a new laptop. What really excites me is the prospect of 3rd party mainboards and other components. This ecosystem is still just getting started though. It seems like this is the beta product, I'll wait for the finished one.
- kllrnohj 10mo ago
  They don't? Ryzen 340 mainboard: $450 https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ai300?v=FRANTE0005 https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ai300?v=FRANTE0005 Ryzen 340 laptop: $1100 https://frame.work/products/laptop13-amd-ai300/configuration/new https://frame.work/products/laptop13-amd-ai300/configuration... Yeah it's certainly the single most expensive component, but it's still cheaper than a whole new laptop and, more to the point, less waste than a whole new laptop
  - 999900000999 10mo ago
    Your comparing Framework to itself. https://slickdeals.net/f/18984394-hp-omnibook-5-16-fhd-ips-ryzen-ai-7-350-16gb-lpddr5-512gb-ssd-439?src=category_page https://slickdeals.net/f/18984394-hp-omnibook-5-16-fhd-ips-r... HP OmniBook 5 16 with an Ryzen 350 for 439$. This is actually less than the framework mainboard for a full laptop with a better processor. This actually
    - ThePowerOfFuet 10mo ago
      But the rest of that machine is hot garbage.

rozenmd 10mo ago

I love my thinkpad, wrote up my experience with the Thinkpad T480 last year: https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t480 https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t... and a quick buyers guide here: https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for-under-500 https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for...

Klonoar 10mo ago
The HN thread responding to your T480 article is all that's needed to understand why it's not really a replacement for a MBP: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34878240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34878240
- rozenmd 10mo ago
  I never said I replaced an MBP with it, but okay, yeah, the build quality is not the same.
999900000999 10mo ago
Lenovo has fantastic recent refurbs. It's a bit of a game, but you can find some for around 400$ or less. My big beef with Macs is I need BIG ssds. If I want to get a 4TB SSD on a Macbook it starts at around 3000$. Recently I purchased a laptop with 2 SSD slots, although disappointingly only one is easy to access. I'm tempted to go to Microcenter and tell them to replace the stock SSD with a 4TB( the stock SSD is the one behind a difficult to remove heat sink), and then I'd put another 4 tb ssd. Alternatively I could just pay 800$ for a 8TB SSD, install it in a laptop that cost around 1300-1500$ and I'm only spending 2300$. On a Mac that's about 5000$. I make music and hate external drives with a passion.

coldpie 10mo ago

First, I think you're correct that a used/refurb Thinkpad is a good solution for many people. For me, what found attractive about the Framework is that I just don't like the idea of replacing my laptops wholesale. I like the little piecemeal upgrades that Framework offers. I like my tech to stay as unchanged as it can. I don't want to adjust to a new keyboard and touchpad and screen and charging situation all at the same time. I prefer the route of doing little upgrades over time, where things only change a little bit, when I'm ready for them to. Maybe next year I will upgrade the screen; maybe the next year I'll drop the USB-A module for something more useful; a couple years after that maybe I'll get a new mainboard; and all through this it's still the same laptop I've known and gotten used to. This is how I manage my desktop, and Framework lets me do the same with a laptop. It's just a personality thing I think. Framework's piecemeal upgrade story is more attractive to me, but I agree there's other routes for people with other priorities.

neogodless 10mo ago

I think laptop gamers, and developers that use gaming laptops for work machines are somewhat niche (and I'm in that niche). Because PC gamers often buy desktops. And console gamers buy consoles while handheld gamers buy handhelds and smartphone gamers... Then there are other kinds of laptop users... the various Macbook users from the lightweight travel Air to the beefy desktop replacement 16" Macbook Pro, and the Windows business laptop users, and the Linux laptop users. (I think we'd all do well to remember the variety in computers and computer users...) So yeah, I've rarely bought anything but a gaming laptop that could easily be upgraded via RAM or SSD, and when I've bought non-upgradeable laptops (a tiny Asus 2-in-1 touchscreen) I found it just wasn't for me and I ended up selling it. My favorite gaming laptops... Lenovo Legion 5 Pro, Acer Nitro 16. My spouse uses a Legion 5 Pro. My sister uses my 5+ year old Legion 5. They've all been a combination of good or great screen, great keyboard, good hardware, pretty quiet except when cranking up for demanding games, and so far all have been reliable, upgradeable, etc. We don't tend to use them on battery, but I've found that they tend to do 4-5 hours easily for basic usage. I wouldn't expect them to do well at all when pulling 100+ W for gaming. (My sister had an older Nitro and the quality was lacking, but I've been impressed by my 2023 model.)

itbeho 10mo ago
Another happy Legion 5 Pro user here. It's not terrible on battery, but not great either. I usually carry one of those 26Mah battery banks in my bag just in case.