4 ms·

Shh...you're not supposed to mention these things alas you be down voted to death. I also have tremendous issues with Plasma. Things such as graphics glitching

by samiv 10mo ago

Shh...you're not supposed to mention these things alas you be down voted to death. I also have tremendous issues with Plasma. Things such as graphics glitching in the alt+tab task switcher or Firefox choking the whole system when opening a single 4k PNG image. This is pre-alpha software... So back to X11 it is. Try again in another decade or two.

imiric 10mo ago
The thing is that I'm not experiencing this clipboard issue on Plasma, but on a fresh installation of Void Linux with niri. There are reports of this issue all over[1][2][3], so it's clearly not an isolated problem. The frustrating thing is that I wouldn't even know which project to report it to. What a clusterfuck. I can't go back to X11 since the community is deliberately killing it. And relying on a fork maintained by a single person is insane to me. [1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/hyprland/comments/1d4s9bw/ctrlc_ctrlv_issues_anyone/ https://old.reddit.com/r/hyprland/comments/1d4s9bw/ctrlc_ctr... [2]: https://old.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/1i9v0n7/copy_paste_only_works_on_second_try/ https://old.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/1i9v0n7/co... [3]: https://old.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/1jl6zv7/why_does_copypaste_not_work_all_the_time_when_i/ https://old.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/1jl6zv7/why_does_copyp...
- samiv 10mo ago
  Re X11 maintenance... I think it's mostly "done" and doesn't really need a lot of work. So not sure I see a problem there.
  - imiric 10mo ago
    Far from it. The recent XLibre release[1] has a long list of bugfixes and new features. Besides, isn't the main complaint from the Wayland folks that X11 is insecure and broken? That means there's still a lot of work to be done. They just refuse to do it. To be fair, X11 has worked great for me for the past ~20 years, but there are obvious improvements that can be made. [1]: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/releases/tag/xlibre-xserver-25.1.0 https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/releases/tag/xlibre-xser...
- gf000 10mo ago
  > since the community is deliberately killing it No one is killing it. No one willing to work on it is a very very different thing, and it's very bad faith and needlessly emotional to attribute malice to a lack of support.
  - imiric 10mo ago
    What's in very bad faith is twisting the words of the people who work on these projects[1], and blaming me for echoing them. It's very clear from their actions[2][3] that they have been actively working to "kill" X11. There are still people willing to work on it, hence the XLibre fork. The fact that most mainstream distros refuse to carry it is another sign that X11 is in fact being actively "killed". [1]: https://mastodon.social/@alatiera/114661446785833161 https://mastodon.social/@alatiera/114661446785833161 [2]: https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/08/the-x11-session-removal/ https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/08/the-x11-session-... [3]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/RHEL10-Removing-X.Org https://www.phoronix.com/news/RHEL10-Removing-X.Org
    - bigyabai 10mo ago
      [1] is correct, though. You don't own Xorg, nor are you entitled to make distro maintainers support it. The Steam Deck doesn't support Xorg officially, but I don't see anyone rioting in the streets. If X11 has died, then it was a Darwinian process.
      - imiric 10mo ago
        Nobody is claiming ownership over Xorg. That's ridiculous. If anything, it's the people who are deliberately trying to "kill" it. Some people simply want to keep working on it, many people still want to keep using it, yet they're being forced not to by egomaniacal children. The job of distro maintainers is to make software accessible for their users. It's not to provide support for the software, nor to fix its bugs. Choosing to not package a specific software is user hostile.
cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
YMMV and all, but my experience is that Wayland smoothness varies considerably depending on hardware. On modernish Intel and AMD iGPUs for example I’ve not had much trouble with Wayland whereas my tower with an Nvidia 3000 series card was considerably more troublesome with it.
- samiv 10mo ago
  As a user...why would I care? If my Ferrari has an issue with the brakes and I go to my dealer I don't care if the brakes were by Brembo. Blaming the vendor and their drivers is just trying to shift the blame.
  - cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
    Generally true, though this particular case is due to a single company deciding to not play ball and generally act in a manner that's hostile to the FOSS world for self-serving reasons (Nvidia).
    - samiv 10mo ago
      I don't even think it's even that. These bugs seem like bog standard bugs related to correct sharing of graphics resources between processes and accessing with correct mutual exclusion.Blaming NV is likely just a convenient excuse.
- bigyabai 10mo ago
  > my tower with an Nvidia 3000 series card was considerably more troublesome with it. I think you're describing a driver error from before Nvidia really supported Wayland. My 3070 exhibited similar behavior but was fixed with the 555-series drivers. The Vulkan drivers are still so/so in terms of performance, but the smoothness is now on-par with my Macbook and Intel GNOME machine.
  - gf000 10mo ago
    My 3080 still has the occasional hiccup, but from what I've read it's from vsync colliding with Nvidia's gsync?

by samiv 10mo ago

imiric 10mo ago

The thing is that I'm not experiencing this clipboard issue on Plasma, but on a fresh installation of Void Linux with niri. There are reports of this issue all over[1][2][3], so it's clearly not an isolated problem. The frustrating thing is that I wouldn't even know which project to report it to. What a clusterfuck. I can't go back to X11 since the community is deliberately killing it. And relying on a fork maintained by a single person is insane to me. [1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/hyprland/comments/1d4s9bw/ctrlc_ctrlv_issues_anyone/ https://old.reddit.com/r/hyprland/comments/1d4s9bw/ctrlc_ctr... [2]: https://old.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/1i9v0n7/copy_paste_only_works_on_second_try/ https://old.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/1i9v0n7/co... [3]: https://old.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/1jl6zv7/why_does_copypaste_not_work_all_the_time_when_i/ https://old.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/1jl6zv7/why_does_copyp...

samiv 10mo ago
Re X11 maintenance... I think it's mostly "done" and doesn't really need a lot of work. So not sure I see a problem there.
- imiric 10mo ago
  Far from it. The recent XLibre release[1] has a long list of bugfixes and new features. Besides, isn't the main complaint from the Wayland folks that X11 is insecure and broken? That means there's still a lot of work to be done. They just refuse to do it. To be fair, X11 has worked great for me for the past ~20 years, but there are obvious improvements that can be made. [1]: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/releases/tag/xlibre-xserver-25.1.0 https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/releases/tag/xlibre-xser...
gf000 10mo ago
> since the community is deliberately killing it No one is killing it. No one willing to work on it is a very very different thing, and it's very bad faith and needlessly emotional to attribute malice to a lack of support.
- imiric 10mo ago
  What's in very bad faith is twisting the words of the people who work on these projects[1], and blaming me for echoing them. It's very clear from their actions[2][3] that they have been actively working to "kill" X11. There are still people willing to work on it, hence the XLibre fork. The fact that most mainstream distros refuse to carry it is another sign that X11 is in fact being actively "killed". [1]: https://mastodon.social/@alatiera/114661446785833161 https://mastodon.social/@alatiera/114661446785833161 [2]: https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/08/the-x11-session-removal/ https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/08/the-x11-session-... [3]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/RHEL10-Removing-X.Org https://www.phoronix.com/news/RHEL10-Removing-X.Org
  - bigyabai 10mo ago
    [1] is correct, though. You don't own Xorg, nor are you entitled to make distro maintainers support it. The Steam Deck doesn't support Xorg officially, but I don't see anyone rioting in the streets. If X11 has died, then it was a Darwinian process.
    - imiric 10mo ago
      Nobody is claiming ownership over Xorg. That's ridiculous. If anything, it's the people who are deliberately trying to "kill" it. Some people simply want to keep working on it, many people still want to keep using it, yet they're being forced not to by egomaniacal children. The job of distro maintainers is to make software accessible for their users. It's not to provide support for the software, nor to fix its bugs. Choosing to not package a specific software is user hostile.

cosmic_cheese 10mo ago

YMMV and all, but my experience is that Wayland smoothness varies considerably depending on hardware. On modernish Intel and AMD iGPUs for example I’ve not had much trouble with Wayland whereas my tower with an Nvidia 3000 series card was considerably more troublesome with it.

samiv 10mo ago
As a user...why would I care? If my Ferrari has an issue with the brakes and I go to my dealer I don't care if the brakes were by Brembo. Blaming the vendor and their drivers is just trying to shift the blame.
- cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
  Generally true, though this particular case is due to a single company deciding to not play ball and generally act in a manner that's hostile to the FOSS world for self-serving reasons (Nvidia).
  - samiv 10mo ago
    I don't even think it's even that. These bugs seem like bog standard bugs related to correct sharing of graphics resources between processes and accessing with correct mutual exclusion.Blaming NV is likely just a convenient excuse.
bigyabai 10mo ago
> my tower with an Nvidia 3000 series card was considerably more troublesome with it. I think you're describing a driver error from before Nvidia really supported Wayland. My 3070 exhibited similar behavior but was fixed with the 555-series drivers. The Vulkan drivers are still so/so in terms of performance, but the smoothness is now on-par with my Macbook and Intel GNOME machine.
- gf000 10mo ago
  My 3080 still has the occasional hiccup, but from what I've read it's from vsync colliding with Nvidia's gsync?