20 ms·
So heartbreaking. The front-line folks at Zynga were worked to the bone, by so many insider accounts. Now all the stock they were counting on has had most of it
by danilocampos 14y ago
So heartbreaking. The front-line folks at Zynga were worked to the bone, by so many insider accounts. Now all the stock they were counting on has had most of its value evaporate.
But that's life, right? Counting on equity is, simply, a gamble.
Except when you've rigged the table, as Pincus and his cronies have.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2012/10/05/zynga-keeps-crashing-but-mark-pincus-is-having-a-great-year/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2012/10/05/zynga-kee...
They got to play by different rules than the folks whose hard work got them to IPO. Instead of being subject to lockup, like the rest of Zynga, they got to cash out early, before the true state of their company was fully appreciated by the market.
So what's the lesson?
Don't trust people willing to fuck people over to make a buck. You're not special. If there's a buck in it, you'll get fucked too.
http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/06/zynga-scamville-mark-pinkus-faceboo/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/06/zynga-scamville-mark-pinkus...
- reitzensteinm 14y agoIs it really heartbreaking that some Silicon Valley developers, one of the highest paid professions in one of the highest paid areas of the world, only made a decent salary instead of a fantastic total compensation package? It's unfortunate, sure. And quite a few parts of the Zynga story are downright distasteful, especially the options clawback last year. But let's not get hyperbolic - they played the startup lottery hoping to get rich, and lost.
- danilocampos 14y agoI think that's easy for you to say. But I bet it really, really hurts for the many folks who genuinely worked their asses off to see Zynga succeed. You put in that kind of effort only to watch your boss get rich while you get screwed? You take Pincus and company, tie their fates to that of the employees, and everyone loses together? Fine, whatever. Like you said, they played the lottery. But the mismatch of fates is, to me, what makes this story pretty damn sad.
- coloneltcb 14y agoRight, but again, heartbreaking is hyperbolic. Heartbreaking is when you are a coal miner and you have the mine collapse on you and you die like a trapped rat. This is just a raw deal.
- rationalbeats 14y agoWell to plays devil's advocate, the coal miner is working in a coal mine because he did not get a superior education. You can argue about why, but I am willing to bet (I don't know anyone working at Zynga) that many of these employees still have tens of thousands of dollars in college loans and seeing the sacrifices they made to get into a position in order to pay them off, erased in a matter of weeks, makes them feel like trapped rats. I never really like these comparison though because why is a ditch digger better or worse than a computer programmer? Both hold basically the same desires. Why should one's misfortune be less important than another? They both work just as hard?
- jbooth 14y agoI think, regardless of socio-economic status, "severely injured/dead" is worse than "only made 120k and I'm in debt".
- dmorgan 14y ago>Well to plays devil's advocate, the coal miner is working in a coal mine because he did not get a superior education. Which is heartbreaking in itself, on top of the bloody mine crushing on him. You say it like this argument somehow makes the Zynga case more heartbreaking, instead of less... >I never really like these comparison though because why is a ditch digger better or worse than a computer programmer? Both hold basically the same desires. Why should one's misfortune be less important than another? They both work just as hard? No, they don't. And they don't get the same compensation either. Or job satisfaction -- the ditch digger pretty much works that job because he has to support himself / his family and he doesn't have the means to get something different. The computer programmer could have been 10 other things if he wanted, from tech support to floor manager at a Costco. Really, try ditch digging for a year, and then we'll talk.
- moocow01 14y ago"Silicon Valley developers, one of the highest paid professions" Based upon the number of hours the people who I knew at Zynga were putting in - IMHO they were far from receiving a good rate when looked at hourly. 100k at 60-70+ hrs per week in a place with some of the highest living costs is not all that admirable of pay if you ask me. Yes they are not on the street but its not exactly the bees' knees either.
- wamatt 14y agoAnd this is why I love HN. I found myself nodding along in full agreement with the GP, then doing the same, after reading the top rebuttal. /enqueues 10 minutes of self-loathing, for being so fickle minded. ;)
- whyenot 14y agoWhat about all the people that work at Zynga who are not developers? The artist, the people in Q/A, and the rest? In many cases they are working just as hard without the compensation packages or virtual guarantee of another job if Zynga goes under. To me, it really is heartbreaking.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- beedogs 14y ago> Is it really heartbreaking that some Silicon Valley developers, one of the highest paid professions in one of the highest paid areas of the world, only made a decent salary instead of a fantastic total compensation package? They effectively worked two full-time jobs for a year and a half, and got paid for one. Average salary for a programmer at Zynga seems to be around $100k, which is less than I make working 37.5 hour weeks, not 100-hour ones. So, yes. It's pretty heartbreaking to see them get fucked over after giving their entire life to Zynga for the better part of 2 years. I'm not sure why you think otherwise, frankly.
- refurb 14y agoBut they had the option to leave anytime they wanted, no? I don't consider it heartbreaking when someone makes a conscious decision to stick around in a crappy situation in the hopes of striking it rich and it doesn't work out.
- Reebz 14y agoLike the old poker adage: if you can't recognize the sucker, then it's you.
- dribnet 14y ago> they played the startup lottery hoping to get rich, and lost. What?!? Folks: ZNGA still has a market cap of almost $2 billion. Your average startup engineer is lucky to see any decent and timely exit event. So even at these "low" prices, from where I sit they are still looking better than many of their peers.
- crasshopper 14y agoSo rich people never deserve sympathy? It's got to hurt when people close to you, whom you see as peers, make off like bandits whilst you're left relatively a lot worse off. "Life's not fair", bellum omnium. But the reason to talk about fairness is that it's something to strive for and insofar as we can make things fairer (like through SEC regulation) we should. Nobody's saying the losers here are catastrophically equivalent to a war zone. But worthy of sympathy? Sure. Just because you're rich doesn't mean things can't suck for you, subjectively.
- mrgoldenbrown 14y agoI think with Zynga it's the fact that it's hard to feel bad for people who work for Pincus, who laughs as he proudly relates how he got his start by peddling malware. When you work for a known-to-be shady guy in the hopes of getting rich, it makes your plight less sympathetic to most people.
- theorique 14y agoNot only heartbreaking, it's literally the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of humankind. If I cried constantly, for the age of the universe, times infinity, it would not be enough to express the sadness I feel. An infinite number of oceans the size of the Sun would not be enough to capture all our tears.
- w1ntermute 14y agoAny developer with a moderate amount of common sense who chose to work for Zynga should've seen this coming. Zynga has been criticized for its business model and the way it treats its employees for a long time now.
- moocow01 14y agoWhile I have never worked there, I think the assumption pre-IPO was that yes you might get abused but it will all be worth it in the end because of the equity - remember Zynga according to tech blogs was the hottest thing coming out of the oven a couple years ago. This also isn't all that unusual of an attitude in a hyped startup - management will abuse you (ahem, I mean expose you to a dynamic exciting work environment) and you will take it because your going to be rich in a few years... or not.
- kika 14y agoI'd say: "expose you to a dynamically exciting work environment". The direction of the dynamics is another story, right.
- dredmorbius 14y agoWinningest quote ever from DotCom 1.0: "It has a ballistic trajectory".
- cmccabe 14y agoThat's really special. And appropriate here.
- josephlord 14y agoTechnically I think orbit can be achieved ballistically, or even planetary/solar escape but the overwhelming majority of projectiles do land. And some of them very hard, others barely get off the ground. All of which makes it quite a good metaphor really although not the originally intended one.
- jfb 14y agoThis is deplorable, of course, but that's the way the scam works. It's only remarked upon when the short position of the executive team is so obvious.
- madrona 14y agoIt's heartening that their business model is failing. I hope it means that it keeps ever more developers from falling into that short-term trap of extracting value through psychological manipulation instead of creating things that are useful or enriching.
- tylermenezes 14y agoI've heard from a lot of people that your reputation means everything. It's a shame that Pincus's didn't catch up with him sooner, since he hardly deserves anything he's getting.
- jarvuschris 14y ago"... before the true state of their company was fully appreciated by the market." I think this article makes it clear that the market has _no clue_ what the "true state" of the company is...
- SeoxyS 14y agoI don't find it heartbreaking at all, actually. While it may be a bummer for those who lost the gamble; it was probably a valuable life lesson. Surely they'll think twice about buying into unfounded hype, and depending on the promise of a paycheck later, someday. Do you find it heartbreaking when a fool throws down $50k on red at the roulette table, and loses?
- astrodust 14y agoHeartbreaking? I feel about as bad for people working at Zynga, where they spend day and night copying other web properties, as I do for those working on the Death Star when it exploded.
- nkoren 14y ago"You know, any contractor willing to work on that Death Star knew the risks. If they were killed, it was their own fault. A roofer listens to this... [taps his heart] not his wallet." http://www.whysanity.net/monos/clerks5.html http://www.whysanity.net/monos/clerks5.html
- lrobb 14y agoI'd say I'm living from paycheck to paycheck.... "Except I'm not getting a paycheck!" http://uptownalmanac.com/2012/10/nerds-gone-wild-day-san-francisco-died http://uptownalmanac.com/2012/10/nerds-gone-wild-day-san-fra...
- rockarage 14y agoTotally, and there was a familiar line, around tech circles, it goes like this "Friends don't let friends work at Zynga". And let's not forget. “I did every horrible thing in the book just to get revenues,” -Mark Pincus It's unfortunate the empolyees were not paying attention to what their CEO and Company was saying and doing.
- equalarrow 14y ago100% spot on. Yah, super sux that (as usual) the top execs ride on the backs of everyone else, cash out, and buy fat crib in Pac Heights. But then again, what do you expect when the ceo is so blatant about the culture there? That sentence says it all, anyone can see it. So, sorry folks u got screwed, but it's, literally a house of cards. Everyone early and vc that put their money in, I'd a happy camper..
- r00fus 14y agoLet's not get caught up in the morals of what Pincus said. It's the moral hazard - you work for a boss who acts like that, and they'll throw you under the bus pretty quickly just as well. And that boss will hire folks who think like (s)he does also.
- r00fus 14y agoLet's not get caught up in the morals of what Pincus said. It's even against your self interest - you work for a boss who acts like that, and they'll throw you under the bus pretty quickly just as well. And that boss will hire folks who think like (s)he does also.
- infinii 14y agoWhen your project manager shows you a Top 25 game from the AppStore and tells you to Zynga-ify (blatantly copy it), you should know you're dealing with scum of the earth.
- raverbashing 14y agoIt's unfortunate the employees were not paying attention to what their CEO and Company was saying and doing. This. Stop coding for a moment and pay attention to the surroundings. What makes you think a person that's unethical to their customers is going to be ethical to their employees?
- dj2stein9 14y agoThis is like feeling sorry for people who work overtime for telemarketers. Oh poor them. Zynga was a cheesy business to begin with, and absolutely every employee there knew it.
- witoldc 14y agoAnyone worth their salt could've Googled their leaderships history of creating big IPOs that end up crushing and burning. Most were complicit in it, or just rationalized it to themselves that it was different. Second, the people who make the company - the early people - are on better terms. The guy who got hired the month before IPO shouldn't be expecting much.
- uvTwitch 14y agoI have no pity for them. They'd have to be terminally ignorant not to realize they were building scumware.
- D3 14y agoThe only heartbreaking thing about this is that the developers were too cowardly to say no to poor working conditions. Doing so might have actually increased quality and output and saved the company. It's every technicians' job to stop management from getting out of hand - or manage the managers, if you will.