4 ms·
These modern rideservices can expel drivers (from the dispatch-and-payment system) far more effectively than traditional regulations could suppress gypsy cabs.
by gojomo 14y ago
These modern rideservices can expel drivers (from the dispatch-and-payment system) far more effectively than traditional regulations could suppress gypsy cabs.
Policies should be driven by real results and demonstrated harm... not by assuming that the risks/regulatory-tools of decades ago still apply.
- tptacek 14y agoExactly how does Uber reliably "expel" a driver?
- gojomo 14y agoBan their DL. Ban their device. Ban their car tags. Include a photo of their approved drivers. It's then at least as hard and probably harder to masquerade to Uber as someone completely different than it is to masquerade to traditional regulatory authorities. Entering an Uber car, my own trusted device can supply me with car and driver info, including photograph. In traditional systems, I'd have to trust unauthenticated documents (including car markings) provided by the car/driver. Such forged traditional documentation can even fool local law enforcement, in some gypsy cab situations. And even if someone can occasionally slip into the role/reputation of another driver in good standing, with that other driver's cooperation, there is still a chain-of-control/motivation incenting good behavior and allowing punishment of transgressions (through the accomplice who loans out their valuable identity). We would need to empirically study whether this system offers better results, overall, than the traditional system. I suspect it does: even if you can contrive a few exploits, they could still be less prevalent/practical than the weaknesses of the traditional system.
- tptacek 14y agoOk, now imagine there are 10 competing Ubers.
- gojomo 14y agoStraining one's imagination is a bad way to inform policy. Observe, don't imagine. There won't be 10 Ubers: the reputation angle and network effects strongly favor a few large recognizable operators. And maybe just one! But even if there were 10: accident, citation, and criminal records are easy to check. Consumers will prefer the branded/authenticated services which self-police most effectively. Traditionally, this may have been a problem needing regulation: at the moment of flagging a streetcab, the fare was at the mercy of the provider, with minimal authentication/reputation information available. Now with the modern mobile-dispatched services, this problem is obsolete... like the problem of needing to buy a paper street map when arriving in a new city.
- tptacek 14y agoYou have to strain your imagination to see 10 competing companies? This is another bias routinely evident on HN: we think of public policy for new business models solely in terms of the best-known operator of that model; it's not about regulating livery, it's about regulating Uber. No.
- gojomo 14y agoYou don't have to change the subject to be about my capacity for imagination, or some bias you perceive in other HN conversations. There aren't 10 such companies now. There might never be. Nor is there yet any evidence of consumer harm. Imagining the worst when it might never materialize is a bad basis for policy. Especially with all the new factors which provide stronger, more-immediate checks on bad-actors: many of which apply to one operator or 100 equally well. Why not give them a chance to work before constraining new operators to an ancient system which (a) disappointed customers with scarcity; and (b) got captured by incumbents?
- tptacek 14y agoYou don't design public policy based on the interests and controls of one single private company.
- arohner 14y agoDon't tell the driver where the customers are.
- rprasad 14y agoThere is no way that banning someone from a single website is more effective than putting them in jail or prison (depending on the state). For that to work, all of the psuedocab/ride-sharing services would have to work together to blacklist drivers who violate their rules, but this is illegal in many states, especially California, in which several of these companies are based.
- gojomo 14y agoA driver doing something so bad the penalty is incarceration can be incarcerated whether they do it in a traditional cab or a new carservice. Also, accident/citation records are available to insurance companies and others, even for non-commercial drivers.
- tptacek 14y agoYou missed his point. By regulating cabs, we can easily make the penalties for breaking the cab rules strong enough to deter bad actors. Uber can't.
- gojomo 14y agoWe can make the penalties for any real problems that arise as strong as needed... when they arise. Expulsion from Uber/etc might be enough. If it isn't, it doesn't require traditional licensing/regulation to increase the penalties for specific actions.