3 ms·

First my mind went to Phoenix (elixir framework), then to X (twitter) before it clicked what this was actually about. Some very overloaded names

gldrk 10mo ago
The meaning of 'X server' has been well-established for 30+ years.
- quesera 10mo ago
  (tangent) This is true, although entertainingly, the "server" part has always been easily confused. In X11, the "server" runs on your local machine, and the "client" frequently runs on a remote system.
  - mananaysiempre 10mo ago
    Yes, it’s simultaneously logical if you look at how it works and immensely strange if you don’t understand the architecture. (As has been noted all the way back to the UNIX-HATERS Handbook[1], although, pace 'DonHopkins, the NeWS Book uses the same terminology—possibly because it was written late enough to contain promises of X11/NeWS.) [1] https://www.donhopkins.com/home/catalog/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html https://www.donhopkins.com/home/catalog/unix-haters/x-window...
    - the_why_of_y 10mo ago
      There is nothing at all strange about the terminology. Go run ps on macOS and marvel at the "WindowServer" process. The generic architectural term is "display server". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windowing_system#Display_server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windowing_system#Display_serve...
  - hitex 10mo ago
    The server runs on the machine that allows clients to connect to it. What is the confusing part about this?
    - quesera 10mo ago
      I think the confusion is obvious, given a little empathy for the range of people who use computers. The server is usually a remote machine, especially back in the time when "client-server" architecture was emerging in mainstream (business) vernacular.
      - bdhcuidbebe 10mo ago
        The server is not usually a remote machine. The server is the app accepting remote connections. This has been true for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_(computing)
        quesera 10mo ago
        Please don't imagine that I don't fully understand this. Nevertheless, X11 "server" and "client" have confused very smart and highly technical people. I have had the entertainment of explaining it dozens of times, though rarely recently. And honestly, still, a server is usually a remote machine in all common usage. When "the server's down", it is usually not a problem on your local machine.
    - jeroenhd 10mo ago
      X has the terminology the other way around compared to all other consumer facing software. This is because of its mainframe style history and technically it does make sense, it's just that everybody else does things the other way around. For the people who weren't around in the ancient mainframe times who end up messing with Linux for the first time, this is confusing for a while.
      - jbverschoor 10mo ago
BearOso 10mo ago
Programmers aren't good at checking if the name is taken. We've done this particular one before. Phoenix (Firefox) had to change names because of Phoenix Technologies, then again because of the Borland Firebird Database.
SoftTalker 10mo ago
Phoenix was also the name of Mozilla's browser before they changed it to Firefox
donpdonp 10mo ago
I'm hoping they go with phoenix11 #seewhatididthere

gldrk 10mo ago

The meaning of 'X server' has been well-established for 30+ years.

quesera 10mo ago
(tangent) This is true, although entertainingly, the "server" part has always been easily confused. In X11, the "server" runs on your local machine, and the "client" frequently runs on a remote system.
- mananaysiempre 10mo ago
  Yes, it’s simultaneously logical if you look at how it works and immensely strange if you don’t understand the architecture. (As has been noted all the way back to the UNIX-HATERS Handbook[1], although, pace 'DonHopkins, the NeWS Book uses the same terminology—possibly because it was written late enough to contain promises of X11/NeWS.) [1] https://www.donhopkins.com/home/catalog/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html https://www.donhopkins.com/home/catalog/unix-haters/x-window...
  - the_why_of_y 10mo ago
    There is nothing at all strange about the terminology. Go run ps on macOS and marvel at the "WindowServer" process. The generic architectural term is "display server". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windowing_system#Display_server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windowing_system#Display_serve...
- hitex 10mo ago
  The server runs on the machine that allows clients to connect to it. What is the confusing part about this?
  - quesera 10mo ago
    I think the confusion is obvious, given a little empathy for the range of people who use computers. The server is usually a remote machine, especially back in the time when "client-server" architecture was emerging in mainstream (business) vernacular.
    - bdhcuidbebe 10mo ago
      The server is not usually a remote machine. The server is the app accepting remote connections. This has been true for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_(computing)
      - quesera 10mo ago
        Please don't imagine that I don't fully understand this. Nevertheless, X11 "server" and "client" have confused very smart and highly technical people. I have had the entertainment of explaining it dozens of times, though rarely recently. And honestly, still, a server is usually a remote machine in all common usage. When "the server's down", it is usually not a problem on your local machine.
  - jeroenhd 10mo ago
    X has the terminology the other way around compared to all other consumer facing software. This is because of its mainframe style history and technically it does make sense, it's just that everybody else does things the other way around. For the people who weren't around in the ancient mainframe times who end up messing with Linux for the first time, this is confusing for a while.
    - jbverschoor 10mo ago

BearOso 10mo ago

Programmers aren't good at checking if the name is taken. We've done this particular one before. Phoenix (Firefox) had to change names because of Phoenix Technologies, then again because of the Borland Firebird Database.

SoftTalker 10mo ago

Phoenix was also the name of Mozilla's browser before they changed it to Firefox

donpdonp 10mo ago

I'm hoping they go with phoenix11 #seewhatididthere